Toronto Maple Leafs

[doulos]

I think you're giving the Leafs an unfair shake based on their track record over the past decade. There's no "bucking the trend"... the trend was already "bucked" last season when they finished tied for fourth in the conference over an entire season. Not to mention they outplayed and pushed the eventual stanley cup finalists to the brink of elimination in the playoffs.

Right now they're tied for tops in the entire league in points and before last night's admittedly terrible game, they were 4th in the league in goals against.

Yet you still somehow take every chance you get to bash them, labeling them a "terrible" team, a "cinderella" team, talking about bucking non-existent trends, and you know you're really grasping when you start bringing in bullshit "advanced stats" as an argument... jeez, what do these guys have to do to get some respect from you?

I really suggest you watch more of their games to get a better feel for this team...

Shortened season makes it much easier to see anomalies in things like this. If they manage to do it again in a full season then I'll be totally shocked, but so will lots of other people based on the chatter. I'm not alone at ALL in this.

I do admit I have only watched two of their games this year, but I came away really unimpressed both times, despite the fact that they won both.

That said, I truly do enjoy watching this team. That was entertaining hockey last night for sure, and they are winning games, which is the whole point of hockey.

[als_revenge]

The Leafs PP is 6th in the league. Penalty Killing is 2nd. Goals against per game is tied for 10th.

If they maintain numbers like that there is no question in my mind that they'll make the playoffs.

[als_revenge]

Sure, but many people, myself included, believe it is unlikely they maintain those numbers.
They have enjoyed a tremendous amount of puck luck this year, even going back to last season too.
If they don't improve their play, regression is inevitable, and missing the playoffs is highly likely.

I don't think "puck luck" has anything to do with their PP and PK efficiency. If they continue to have a great PP and PK, that alone could get them to the playoffs.

But I certainly agree that this team is playing no where close to its potential.

[sparrowtrini]

Their PP has essentially the same personnel as last year and yet it's jumped considerably in the rankings. I think a big part of that is puck luck. And having Raymond playing way above his head at the moment.
Their defensive play has been, at times, unbelievably bad. At its best, it's been bearable.
They are still a turnover machine in the neutral zone and in their own end. Bernier has bailed them out alot so far. Even the game Reimer won, he was solid.
They might be able to get away with this subpar play for a shortened season. But over 82 games, I doubt it.
They have to improve considerably. They can't outscore their problems forever. They are playing like they did the season Wilson got canned. Early in the year, they were playing poorly but scoring plenty of goals, and scoring timely goals. Later that season "the bus went off the cliff" as Burkie so aptly explained.

This has been an issue for the Leafs for years. Defensive breakdowns, inconsistant backchecking by the forwards. Geez I miss the Roger Neilson years - boring but defensively sound. Pat Burns was great too.

What is it the coaching?

You take a Phaneuf or a franson and throw them on a team like Boston or Detroit and they don't make as many errors and their positioning improves(they play a role).

Are they being asked to do too much?

I dunno been a Leaf fan too long. No wonder im going bald.

[4horsemen]

If they don't improve their play, regression is inevitable, and missing the playoffs is highly likely.

WOW!! I find it hard to be a Leafs fan at times but you seem to have taken it to the next level of intense Self Flagellation. The team gets off to it's best start in over a decade and you're calling it 'Highly Likely' that they'll miss the playoffs?!?

Crack a beer, burn one down and try to enjoy the your team for a bit!!

[bigbabybuda]

Cinderella is going to miss playoffs. No way they maintain wins playing such poor hockey.

Cinderella wins again. This is a decent team. better recolonize

[doulos]

Cinderella wins again. This is a decent team. better recolonize

I didn't catch the game. What's the deal with the shots on goal? Was it a close game and most of the shots were from the outside for the Wild?

I still cannot fathom how they are winning, but they are!

[Big Ev]

I didn't catch the game. What's the deal with the shots on goal? Was it a close game and most of the shots were from the outside for the Wild?

I still cannot fathom how they are winning, but they are!

One reason is they have had a very easy schedule so far. But they are playoff team.

Cinderella wins again. This is a decent team. better recolonize

Where are going to recolonize?

[4horsemen]

I didn't catch the game. What's the deal with the shots on goal? Was it a close game and most of the shots were from the outside for the Wild?

I still cannot fathom how they are winning, but they are!

As pointed out earlier, they're winning because of the PP and solid goaltending.

[doulos]

As pointed out earlier, they're winning because of the PP and solid goaltending.

So is this an admission that the team is outplayed 5v5? But their powerplay and goaltending is so good that they can overcome?

[4horsemen]

So is this an admission that the team is outplayed 5v5? But their powerplay and goaltending is so good that they can overcome?

Have I just become the strawman in an argument I'm not a part of?!?

I don't have to 'admit' anything as I was never in the defensive position of an argument regarding their 5 on 5 play.

[doulos]

Holy crap, step away from the ledge. I'm trying to clarify how to explain the scoreboard in Toronto for a game I didn't get the chance to watch. Based on shots on goal they were badly outplayed vs Minnesota, but the score board says 4-1.

So what happened? I'm really honestly truly curious since I didn't watch the game.

You mentioned the team has a strong powerplay and goaltending. Okay great. Is that the main reason why they win would you say? In your opinion? Are they being outplayed 5v5? What's going on? What about in their last game? Same questions.

The Leafs are a fascinating team and I am really curious as to how to explain the strange things going on with them.

[4horsemen]

Holy crap, step away from the ledge. I'm trying to clarify how to explain the scoreboard in Toronto for a game I didn't get the chance to watch. Based on shots on goal they were badly outplayed vs Minnesota, but the score board says 4-1.

So what happened? I'm really honestly truly curious since I didn't watch the game.

You mentioned the team has a strong powerplay and goaltending. Okay great. Is that the main reason why they win would you say? In your opinion? Are they being outplayed 5v5? What's going on? What about in their last game? Same questions.

The Leafs are a fascinating team and I am really curious as to how to explain the strange things going on with them.

I'm going give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not trolling Leafs fans here because my response was entirely in line with being asked to 'admit' something as if I was being interrogated. Futhermore, the response of 'step away from the ledge' was completely misused You could have asked me not to get my hackles up or even not to get my panties in a bunch but steping away from the ledge implies that I'm full of despair.

Toronto was ABSOLUTELY outplayed last night. It was actually hard to watch through most of the 1st period. Reimer really held them in it and once again the PP was lethal.

In terms of 'What's going on?' I'd say part of what we're seeing are the growing pains of having so many youngsters in the lineup (Gardiner, Reilly, Kadri, Broll, Leivo, Ashton, etc) coupled with the fact that Kessel and Bozak are not good possion-type players and things don't point towards the current iteration of the Leafs ever being 'advanced stats' darlings.

What they do have going for them is explosively fast players who can snipe when given the opportunity so the key to beating the Leafs is to play a sound defensive system and wait for them to turn it over. They've got d-men who can make a great breakout pass and forwards who can outskate the opposition to the puck. This is not a great strategy for wining a cup but it's also something the advanced stats community has difficulty quantifying. As much as they dig their heels in that there is no such thing as shot quality I can guarantee you that when Lupul and Kessel are bearing down on you 2 on 1 there's a very good chance the puck is going in.

[doulos]

I'm not trying to troll. I fail at that sometimes and I am working on it.

It seems to me that you feel there is something to the idea of 'shot quality' (based on your last paragraph) and that this may be part of the explanation as to why the Leafs are able to capitalize despite lower shot totals etc.

Is this a fair assessment?

Maybe you're right, and some of the advanced stats stuff hasn't been able to quantify that properly yet.

[blayze]

Let's be honest here Doulos... you are totally trolling Leaf fans haha... you are not as subtle as you think