Philadelphia Flyers

[Flyer Fan]

The Philly Inquirer's Sam Carchidi scored a great interview with Ed Snider. I'll add the link to the full article below, but here are some highlights:

On Bryzgalov and goaltending: " I think he wasn't prepared for Philadelphia fans and the microscope that he's under. I think we're tougher on goalies maybe than any other team in the league. I think our fans are frustrated, and rightfully so, for the goaltending carousel that we've had through the years.
"It's the problem of management, not of Bryzgalov. We blew it, and we created the situation [in the past]. I watch the playoffs and regular-season games, and all goalies let in bad goals. But when a goalie in Philadelphia lets in a bad goal, it's like a disaster."

On Pronger and the Flyers offseason plans: "You can't replace a Pronger, but maybe you can make some moves that help offset the loss of Pronger." He said he believes that general manager Paul Holmgren "has to focus on the defense first."

""I honestly think if Pronger and Meszaros had been healthy in the playoffs, we would have won the whole thing. I don't like to cry about injuries, but you just can't lose a Pronger and replace him. And then on top of that, you lose Meszaros and Bourdon" and have Kimmo Timonen, Carle, and Grossmann banged up during the postseason."


Full article: http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/..._movement.html

(Personally I found everything after "has to focus on the defense first" to be anti-climatic)

[Straight Chillin]

FlyerFan,

Read the article when it came out, as I follow Sam on Twitter, and loved it. Thanks for posting.

Snider makes a good point about Pronger and Mez but I don't think he took into consideration the cap issues with Pronger's return (Grossmann trade) so our D, while instantly improved, wouldn't have been as deep.

I'm a big Bryz supporter (until he acts like an idiot) and believe he'll have a great second season. Snider hits it on the head in saying that Bryz didn't realize the type of city he was coming to. Bryz seems to be resilient though so I'm hoping he can at least put up a .910 with a 2.75 GAA for his second campaign.

The more I read into the rumors of the off season, the more I'm worried that we won't land Suter or Parise. Usually the Flyers are at least mentioned as a front running team or even within the top 5 teams, but it seems Detroit is a favorite for Suter and New York for Parise. Ah well. We'll figure something out. Again, I wouldn't be against trading a couple of forwards for a top D man.

Time will tell.

[Straight Chillin]

Oh, and I heard this morning the cap could go up to 73-76 million next year? That's insane! So my numbers from last week could work out even without sending Schenn down.

[Straight Chillin]

Also... What would it take to land a guy like Bogosian? I've noticed most of Winnipeg's team are UFA/RFA after this year. They could REALLY make an impact July 1st, 2013.

[Flyer Fan]

What Scott Hartnell does in the offseason:




from here: https://twitter.com/Hartsy19/status/...062081/photo/1

[Straight Chillin]

Great shot of Hartsy.

Quick question... Anyone else read the Bleacher Report for the Flyers regularly? I've been following it for some time now, and while I used to enjoy it, I now get the feeling it's just a bunch of hacks stating rather obvious opinions about everything in Flyerland. I read an article today about what the Flyers must do to win the cup.

1) Get rid of Kubina and Carle
2) Trade JVR
3) Hartnell and Simmonds to score as much or more than last year
4) Bryz playing better
5) Re-sign Jagr
6) Replace Pronger as Captain
7) Avoid softmore slumps

How can someone write this stuff and essentially assure a Stanley Cup if all are met out?

First of all, Carle can stay for a good enough price. 5+ million and he can walk for all I care. The article talks about signing Allen or Jackman as a solid D man, but that we won't land Suter (that's fine too) or to trade JVR, Bob and a first for Bogosian/Kronwall... A little steep, don't you think?

Anyway... Just some reading that really started to grind my gears and I figured I'd share it.

[Straight Chillin]

Also, what the hell is this rumour about JVR + for Nash? Seems to have legs, but why on earth would we want a player at 7.8 million over the next 6 years that has only JUST hit a point per game twice in his career?

I don't care for the argument, "But yeah... he did that on a team like Columbus." That, to me, is irrelevant. Is Nash not the most overrated player in the game?

I don't get it.

I know JVR has had injury issues but I believe it's because of this that he hasn't hit his stride yet. If he plays with a little more confidence, he'll be a steal at 4.25 in two years. If he doesn't, then it's not like Ville Leino would have done any better.

[Flyer Fan]

Also, what the hell is this rumour about JVR + for Nash? Seems to have legs, but why on earth would we want a player at 7.8 million over the next 6 years that has only JUST hit a point per game twice in his career?

I don't care for the argument, "But yeah... he did that on a team like Columbus." That, to me, is irrelevant. Is Nash not the most overrated player in the game?

I don't get it.

I know JVR has had injury issues but I believe it's because of this that he hasn't hit his stride yet. If he plays with a little more confidence, he'll be a steal at 4.25 in two years. If he doesn't, then it's not like Ville Leino would have done any better.

Couldn't agree more!!!

The rumor floating around is JvR, Read, Bobrovsky, AND a number 1 pick!

Plus there'd have to be another 3.5million or so in salary going out to make the numbers work...

Seems like an awfully high price to pay for a one dimensional, good but not great, overpaid, former forty goal scorer, who's motivation and leadership have been questioned, who's game seems to have plateaued much too early, and who's contract figures to hinder the team's ability to address roster weaknesses in other areas.

Seems to me, we've been here before.

The difference was, Jeff Carter was younger, home grown, had a much lower cap hit, didn't have a no trade clause, and didn't cost a king's ransom to acquire...

Acquiring the "established 40 goal all-star" cost Columbus Couturier and Voracek, and last time I checked, the deal hadn't seemed to work out real well for them, ...and would have been much, much uglier had they not had the ability to flip Carter.

Any team acquiring Nash would have no such option.

[Brady19]

I like the addition of Scott Laughton for Philly. I'm curious how people think that impacts Couturier and/or Schenn in the long term. Likely Laughton projects to be the 3rd line center in a few years, is that roughly the timeline we should be expecting before one of Couturier/Schenn is the #2 C in Philly?

[hockeymanG23]

I like the addition of Scott Laughton for Philly. I'm curious how people think that impacts Couturier and/or Schenn in the long term. Likely Laughton projects to be the 3rd line center in a few years, is that roughly the timeline we should be expecting before one of Couturier/Schenn is the #2 C in Philly?

Who knows what the team could look like in a few years, but I've seen Schenn and Briere play wing, so the top three lines could look like this based off of the current roster.

Hartnell- Giroux- Voracek
JVR- Couturier- Briere
Schenn- Laughton- Simmonds

I could probably swap any of the LWers and this would certainly be a killer top nine depending on how Laughton develops. At the same time it's this depth which could be used for a serious upgrade on D

[Flyer Fan]

I like the addition of Scott Laughton for Philly. I'm curious how people think that impacts Couturier and/or Schenn in the long term. Likely Laughton projects to be the 3rd line center in a few years, is that roughly the time line we should be expecting before one of Couturier/Schenn is the #2 C in Philly?

Just my opinion, but Briere's play slipped badly last season. He was very good in the playoffs, but his regular season production really doesn't stack up to against "good" second line centers.

The Flyers were rolling three scoring lines, so it kind of slipped under the radar, but as HockeymanG noted, Briere has at times been shifted to the wing.

He doesn't like it, and hasn't been very effective their either, but with Schenn, and Couturier both having offensive second line upside, and both needing upside, I think that were going to see Briere given the second line center slot initially, and periodically, but when he struggles (which he invariably will at times), Laviolette will move him to wing and give one of the kids the slot...

And there's a reason for that: Next season could very well Briere's last as a Flyer. His contract runs for another three years, but in terms of actual salary, next season is his last "real" salary year.

He's scheduled to make 7 million in actual salary next year, then his actual salary drops to 3 million, then 2 million.

So given his age, declining production, and likely reduced role and position shift, retirement is a distinct possibility, and with Briere only being owed 2.5 million per year in actual dollars for two years, he becomes a very attractive option if he's willing to waive his ntc to seek a better more playing time or a second line center slot etc...

Regardless, I think one of Schenn or Couturier begins taking over that second line center slot next season, and owns it by the following season.

The Flyers do seem to think that Schenn can be effective on the wing, and realistically, given that Giroux isn't going anywhere, it would make more sense to make that shift which would allow both Schenn and Couturier to be in the top six rather than having Couturier locked into a third line role.

As for Laughton and the third line center role, again as HockeymanG said, "who knows what the roster is going to look like in a few years"

Given Holmgren's track record, it wouldn't be at all surprising if either one or both of Couturier or Schenn were traded at some point (or even today, last year he traded two all-star centers on the same day, so trading two young players in the same day would qualify as a "roster tweak")

But right now, looking at the organizations long term options for that third line role, even if the Holmgrens spot on in his estimation of Laughton, and Laughton develops perfectly as projected, on the current roster the Flyers still have Couturier, Read, Talbot, or even Schenn on the roster who will be much better pro players and better fits in that role at the time.

So at best, if Laughton development skyrockets at a fantastic pace, two years from now, he's at best a fourth line energy guy, or bit player (ala Wellwood lst season) who will be better served getting first line minutes, being a key cog, captain, or leader in the AHL.

I think best case scenario, it takes another year at least.

The next thing I'll add, is that I read a number of scouting reports on Laughton last night,(which I'll try to track down again and post links to later), and the consensus of them is that everyone agrees that he's a smart player, with a great attitude, compete level, and leadership skills, who plays a gritty two way game, and isn't afraid to get his nose dirty or drop the gloves, and will do whatever it takes win, ...and is in a lot ways very much like Mike Richards (or Shane Doan, both of which he admires and patterns his game after).

But, once you look past the rave reviews about the "intangibles", and take a critical unbiased look at the evaluations of the actual "tools", you see a player who at times had trouble maintaining a position in his junior team's top six during his draft year, plays a physical game, but is undersized, and lacks the strength to do so effectively in the NHL, has never possessed much offensive creativity, is weak on the puck, has sub par puck handling skills, sub par skating skills (both speed and agility) which will further hamper his ability to play a physical game at the NHL level (you can't hit, what you can't catch. You can't defend or out compete a player you can get to in time and would physically overpower you if you did.)

It hasn't happened in the first round under his tenure before, but if you look at Holmgren's draft record from the second round on, he has a history of "reaching" because he's overvaluing "grit" and intangibles and overlooking deficiencies in skills, ...and consequently his success rate beyond the first round is pretty dismal.

Just my opinion, but I think the Laughton pick was a case of Holmgren not listening to his scouts, falling in love with a players personality and style of game and failing to recognize a limited skill set.

I wouldn't have minded Laughton as a second or third round pick (he was projected as mid-second round), but I think he was a reach, and a guy you're drafting 20th overall should have a higher projected upside than as offensively limited third line center with average size, and below average skating.

[Atomic Wedgy]

I am not happy with trading JVR straight up for Schenn. I think we got a bit hosed on that deal. JVR's contract was very reasonable for what I think he will produce over the next six years.

[dyzfunctioned]

I am not happy with trading JVR straight up for Schenn. I think we got a bit hosed on that deal. JVR's contract was very reasonable for what I think he will produce over the next six years.

Terrible trade for you guys...

[Flyer Fan]

I am not happy with trading JVR straight up for Schenn. I think we got a bit hosed on that deal. JVR's contract was very reasonable for what I think he will produce over the next six years.

I Couldn't agee more. I think Holmgren just traded away a future all-star for a third pairing defenseman.

Assuming he has a deal in place with Carle, Carle and Timonen will be the top pairing.

Grossman and Coburn figure to be the second pairing.

That leaves Schenn on the third pairing playing with Meszaros.

...and Gustafsson/Bourdon on the outside looking in.


Holmgren gave up size, speed, scoring, and potential upfront for a guy who's game has gone backwards since his rookie year, couldn't establish himself on an a bad team under two different coaches, and who's game, tools, and developement seem to point to him eventually developing into a Dennis Gauthier/Sean O'Donnell type of player. (albeit without O'Donnell's defensive awareness)

I dislike this trade on many levels.

[sparrowtrini]

Wgile i love getting JVR.....I....

Totally disagree. Seeing Schenn every game I see some massive shutdown potential. A change of scenary(Getting out of toronto spotlight)will be great for him.

I dont know how we will replace his toughness.

Do you think Pronger has a shot to come back? If so that would be a blessing in the advancement of schenn.