Montreal Canadiens

[Lug Tread Lager]

Roy in the mix next year?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle2375006/

[ericdaoust]

Roy in the mix next year?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle2375006/

That would be a disaster. I don't think Roy is a good coach at all. Too much ego there. His tenure would make the marriage between Brian Burke and the Toronto media look like a happy one.

[ross10019]

That would be a disaster. I don't think Roy is a good coach at all. Too much ego there. His tenure would make the marriage between Brian Burke and the Toronto media look like a happy one.

I agree, a fiery guy like that as coach of the Habs? Will make Tortorella's post-game pressers look like 8-year old girl tea parties. Much rather he be brought in as a front office guy, he's got the fire to succeed that would be valuable there without the risk of creating a difficult lockerroom environment.

Hiring a volatile guy like Roy as head coach would (ironically) be like having Mario Tremblay back behind the bench.

[ericdaoust]

I agree, a fiery guy like that as coach of the Habs? Will make Tortorella's post-game pressers look like 8-year old girl tea parties. Much rather he be brought in as a front office guy, he's got the fire to succeed that would be valuable there without the risk of creating a difficult lockerroom environment.

Hiring a volatile guy like Roy as head coach would (ironically) be like having Mario Tremblay back behind the bench.

The other issue is that IMO it would show that ownership/management are still content with running a second-rate franchise.

[habs83]

Already posted this in the main forum, but I wanted to post it here as well, to discussed what it means from the Habs prespective.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/en...#ixzz1peUkmRy7

This is a study about how the teams fared at the draft table from 2000 to 2009.

The method used is questionable, but the results showed that the Habs are the team with the best "batting average" (players reaching the NHL) and "slugging percentage" (where more points are awarded to players who have a bigger impact).

First, this study just exposed how bad the managements managed their assets over the last decade. Bad trades and players wlaking away with nothing coming back contributed to the situation the team is now in.

But what does that says about the work of Trevor Timmins? I'll start by stating that I always thought he has done a pretty good job since he came over. He has been in charge since 2003, and here is what stand out about his work:

-one of the best to identify players that will be able to play in the NHL
-had a couple of first round busts (Chipchura and Fischer)
-drafted only once in the top 5 (Price, 2005)
-will forever be remembered for drafting Kostitsyn in 2003 over Perry, Parise, Getzlaf, Kresler, etc.
-from 2003 to 2009, had seven 2nd round picks which are Kristo, Subban, Maxwell, Carle, Latendresse, Urquhart, Lapierre.
-had multiple great picks from round 3 to 9

The main criticism that has been directed to him is that he did not drafted impact players. This is mainly due the rank where he first drafted over the years, and the only time he was given a top 5 pick, he did not miss.

Given his track record in the first round, it is a disgrace that the organisation traded away so many 2nd rounder in the last couple of years. Give him more picks in that range, don't take them away from him.

The all-Timmins team from 2000 to 2009 would look like this:

Price
Halak

MacDonagh-Subban
Streit-Emelin
Weber-O'Byrne
Carle

Latendresse-Grabovski-Pacioretty
S. Kostitsyn-Leblanc-A. Kostitsyn
Kristo-Lapierre-White
D'Agostini-Maxwell-Wyman

This team lack fire power up front but is rock solid in nets and pretty good on defense.

We'll now see what he'll do in 2012 and 2013 with multiples good draft picks...if he is still there to call the shots.

[ericdaoust]

Pulling a quote from the ramblings, we can see that a player we know so well has not suddenly changed since moving on to a new team...

Andrei Kostitsyn is pointless and minus-4 in his last five games. His ice time has declined in each one of those games, and down to 12:27 last night. Not a good sign for when they get a certain scoring forward in the lineup tomorrow.

[ericdaoust]

For starters, I missed the first period but listened on satellite radio in my car.

Rapid fire notes:
-Several times this season the team elevates its shot total and ends up with a goose egg. To me it's a sign that the team is not cohesive and is settling for poor percentage perimeter shots. Call it the Washington Capitals disease.
-The top line only accounted for seven shots which is usually a bad sign. They were also not great defensively as a unit.
-PK Subban is improving tremendously down the stretch. He has become quite effective at both ends, as seen by his work on the penalty kill. He obviously did not get any points last night but defencemen have less control over points since they operate from farther away. Subban's puck movement and decisions have been great.
-Whatever is ailing Alexei Emelin has clearly not healed. He is just not as rugged as we're used to seeing.
-I really hope the new coach/GM find a way to motivate Rene Bourque.
-Andrei Markov is still seeing limited ice time but his skating is improving. His mind alone is enough to compensate for whatever speed has been lost permanently.
-I missed the fight but according to hockeyfights.com Brad Staubitz won his battle against Cody McCormick. Link here: http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/111069

[ross10019]

The other issue is that IMO it would show that ownership/management are still content with running a second-rate franchise.

Note the separate thread on the recent "report" that Roy will be coming in as GM and Hartley as head coach:
http://www.dobberhockey.com/forums/n...ote=1&p=925915

[ericdaoust]

Note the separate thread on the recent "report" that Roy will be coming in as GM and Hartley as head coach:
http://www.dobberhockey.com/forums/n...ote=1&p=925915

I still don't like it but it's a step forward from him coming in as coach. I still think Roy is not enough of a professional to handle the job. I don't know how he is at evaluating talent but I have my doubts. He would be more aggressive in trades than we've seen from Habs' GMs in the past though.

[ericdaoust]

Already posted this in the main forum, but I wanted to post it here as well, to discussed what it means from the Habs prespective.

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/en...#ixzz1peUkmRy7

This is a study about how the teams fared at the draft table from 2000 to 2009.

The method used is questionable, but the results showed that the Habs are the team with the best "batting average" (players reaching the NHL) and "slugging percentage" (where more points are awarded to players who have a bigger impact).

First, this study just exposed how bad the managements managed their assets over the last decade. Bad trades and players wlaking away with nothing coming back contributed to the situation the team is now in.

But what does that says about the work of Trevor Timmins? I'll start by stating that I always thought he has done a pretty good job since he came over. He has been in charge since 2003, and here is what stand out about his work:

-one of the best to identify players that will be able to play in the NHL
-had a couple of first round busts (Chipchura and Fischer)
-drafted only once in the top 5 (Price, 2005)
-will forever be remembered for drafting Kostitsyn in 2003 over Perry, Parise, Getzlaf, Kresler, etc.
-from 2003 to 2009, had seven 2nd round picks which are Kristo, Subban, Maxwell, Carle, Latendresse, Urquhart, Lapierre.
-had multiple great picks from round 3 to 9

The main criticism that has been directed to him is that he did not drafted impact players. This is mainly due the rank where he first drafted over the years, and the only time he was given a top 5 pick, he did not miss.

Given his track record in the first round, it is a disgrace that the organisation traded away so many 2nd rounder in the last couple of years. Give him more picks in that range, don't take them away from him.

The all-Timmins team from 2000 to 2009 would look like this:

Price
Halak

MacDonagh-Subban
Streit-Emelin
Weber-O'Byrne
Carle

Latendresse-Grabovski-Pacioretty
S. Kostitsyn-Leblanc-A. Kostitsyn
Kristo-Lapierre-White
D'Agostini-Maxwell-Wyman

This team lack fire power up front but is rock solid in nets and pretty good on defense.

We'll now see what he'll do in 2012 and 2013 with multiples good draft picks...if he is still there to call the shots.

Thanks for the article. To me the problem has nothing to do with the draft picks themselves. The correct players are selected. They do well in the junior leagues or in their home countries, then they do well in the AHL, then they arrive in Montreal and stall after having a bit of success. Think Chris Higgins, Mike Komisarek, Andrei Kostitsyn, Sergei Kostitsyn, Guillaume Latendresse and Mikhail Grabovski, among others.

It goes back to the problem I've brought up about management treating this like a second-rate organization. The coaching staff is a revolving door and there is a very inconsistent overall vision for the team. It starts at the top and has finally made its way onto the ice.

Right now there is a decent foundation to build around. I just hope management doesn't tear it down.

[habs83]

Thanks for the article. To me the problem has nothing to do with the draft picks themselves. The correct players are selected. They do well in the junior leagues or in their home countries, then they do well in the AHL, then they arrive in Montreal and stall after having a bit of success. Think Chris Higgins, Mike Komisarek, Andrei Kostitsyn, Sergei Kostitsyn, Guillaume Latendresse and Mikhail Grabovski, among others.

It goes back to the problem I've brought up about management treating this like a second-rate organization. The coaching staff is a revolving door and there is a very inconsistent overall vision for the team. It starts at the top and has finally made its way onto the ice.

Right now there is a decent foundation to build around. I just hope management doesn't tear it down.

Exactly...Montreal is almost the exact opposite of Detroit, where prospects are brought along slowly, and are given roles that they can handle, or fit their abilities.

In Montreal, they either make them play too soon (Latendresse), give them roles they are not fit to handle (Koivu as a 1st line center, Higgins as a first line winger) or waste their abilities in roles not fit for them (Ribeiro and Grabovski, for example).

Plus, when you have a pretty good talent evaluator like Timmins in the organization, you should at least consult him when you are about to trade one of your best prospect. But Timmins confrimed to Mathias Brunet from La Presse that nobody contacted him when they traded MacDonagh for Gomez (and that he was pissed).

Culture needs to be changed in Habsland, and it starts at the top...your move M. Molson!

[ericdaoust]

your move M. Molson!

I see that you've been influenced by Pierre Gauthier...

[habs83]

I don't get it M. Daoust...

[Akkei]

For what it's worth, the rumor now seems to be that the management team will be composed of Vincent Damphousse, Clause Loiselle, Patrick Roy and Serge Savard. I guess that Roy would then be coach. I'm not sure where Serge Savard fits in as he has been away from the NHL for so long.

I hope Vincent Damphousse do join the organization. With his involvement in the NHLPA, I would expect he knows enough about NHL level management to take on the role of GM (which experience Roy lacks). From his appearances in the last few months on RDS, I have learned to appreciate Damphousse for his ability to analyze any situation with a long-term perspective (which we do not hear a lot on RDS...). He is often the only voice of reason on the Antichambre when he is on the panel.

[habs83]

For what it's worth, the rumor now seems to be that the management team will be composed of Vincent Damphousse, Clause Loiselle, Patrick Roy and Serge Savard. I guess that Roy would then be coach. I'm not sure where Serge Savard fits in as he has been away from the NHL for so long.

I hope Vincent Damphousse do join the organization. With his involvement in the NHLPA, I would expect he knows enough about NHL level management to take on the role of GM (which experience Roy lacks). From his appearances in the last few months on RDS, I have learned to appreciate Damphousse for his ability to analyze any situation with a long-term perspective (which we do not hear a lot on RDS...). He is often the only voice of reason on the Antichambre when he is on the panel.

What's the source for this??

Serge Savard gave an interview to french newspaper last week, stating that, at 66, he has done his time (http://www.cyberpresse.ca/la-tribune...e-canadien.php)

As for Damphousse and Roy, I don't think that it is a good idea to give both GM and coach jobs to inexperienced guys. The last time two former Habs players were given those responsibilities without any prior experience in the NHL...we're still trying to forget that episode.

Loiselle is a potent candidate, along with others.