Montreal Canadiens

[ericdaoust]

I blame P.K. He was virtually invisible in this series.

I agree.

[blayze]

I truly believe the Habs need to make a drastic change... either through the front office or on the ice.

They need to change their long-term strategy and culture. For too long they've done the same thing every single year - playing disciplined hockey in a good system with average players which works wonders in the regular season only to get exposed in the playoffs.

[Bass56]

I truly believe the Habs need to make a drastic change... either through the front office or on the ice.

They need to change their long-term strategy and culture. For too long they've done the same thing every single year - playing disciplined hockey in a good system with average players which works wonders in the regular season only to get exposed in the playoffs.

I agree, but it seems like they refuse to do that mostly due to the marketing of the ''brand'' in Montreal. A rebuild, forcing the team to have below .500 seasons and not make the playoffs for 2-3 years is volatile for the Habs market. The marketing team has built a great ''product'' and I doubt they are willing to scrap what they have to ''try'' to win a cup. If your team is good and it sells out games every night and your merchandise is being purchased and all, why would you risk losing that? When the Habs win a playoff game/series, it feels like a Cup win in Montreal. They won't risk not selling out 41 regular season games to maybe get a tad further in the playoffs...

Anyways, I'm not saying this is the truth, but it is what I've come to see from the team over the years. They put the business side before!

[blayze]

I agree, but it seems like they refuse to do that mostly due to the marketing of the ''brand'' in Montreal. A rebuild, forcing the team to have below .500 seasons and not make the playoffs for 2-3 years is volatile for the Habs market. The marketing team has built a great ''product'' and I doubt they are willing to scrap what they have to ''try'' to win a cup. If your team is good and it sells out games every night and your merchandise is being purchased and all, why would you risk losing that? When the Habs win a playoff game/series, it feels like a Cup win in Montreal. They won't risk not selling out 41 regular season games to maybe get a tad further in the playoffs...

Anyways, I'm not saying this is the truth, but it is what I've come to see from the team over the years. They put the business side before!

In Montreal, I'd expect they will still make a ton of money and sell out every game even during a rebuild.

Trust me... we were shit for over half a century and we still sold out every game!

[rataylor22]

Just a couple thoughts from reading the last three pages of thread....

Radulov is awesome. For much of the season and certainly that series, he looked like he cared about winning more than any other player on the ice. What a fun guy. I'd want my team to sign him.

Price got outplayed. That's the end of the comment really. That doesn't mean he can't be 2014 Price again, I'm sure he can be. He just wasn't this series and MTL isn't built to win without him being the best player in the playoffs. In fairness, usually teams win when their best player is the best player in the playoffs, but I think Bergevin has done a pretty poor job of building this team, and unfortunately, has done irreversible damage to it by trading Subban.

Loading up on fourth liners and 3rd pairing D was a predictable failure for this team. Ott, King, Martinsen, eesh. Also, if they protect Benn of Beaulieu, just wow lol. Benn is a third pairing defender with no upside for more.

Not trading for Duchene cost this team. Their obvious, glaring weakness has always been down the middle of the ice, and they didn't address that. Maybe long term, Sergachev proves not trading him will be the right move. But Duchene would have been a significant upgrade to their lineup, in a year when the path to the Conference Finals was easier than usual.

[Bass56]

In Montreal, I'd expect they will still make a ton of money and sell out every game even during a rebuild.

Trust me... we were shit for over half a century and we still sold out every game!

Hehe very true, but it took a HUUUUUUUGE turnaround with some very good timing. Shanahan, Backcock and Lou as management, Marner and Nylander that turn out to be elite players at a young age and getting them at number 4 and 8 respectively, getting the 1st overall when a franchise player is available in Matthews, having your rookies ready and your vets in their prime at the right time when your ''turnaround'' phase began and landing a starter with the skillset that Andersen has for a late first rounder and a second rounder is a lot of things going right in a few years time.

The Habs are caught in a bad spot as they are good enough to make the playoffs on a given year but never strong enough to go far. You can't can a team for that type of output but as fans, it's frustrating not to be able to get that extra kick to make it further.

FWIW, I did not give the Habs a chance this past offseason. I had said that the year would be a long one and that they lacked scoring. They did trade Subban and sign Radu shortly after I said that, but I was still not convinced. Guess they did turn things around in the season after all. That got me believing in them, seeing them as a darkhorse candidate to make it to the Eastern Conference Finals; mainly due to their bracket position but also because of the momentum they were carrying into the playoffs.

Anyways, we all know how the story ends... If they don't fix their scoring issues, they can rely on the best goalie and bulk up as much as they want, but they won't go very far when it really counts!

Side note: I like Patches and I think he HAD to be injured to play like he did in the series. He wasn't bad per-say like some say, but he wasn't good enough when the team needed him to be either. I wonder if management would consider moving him along with Galchenyuk for some other scorers (i.e. Duchene, RNH, Landeskog, ...) and give the C to Weber? You aren't totally changing the team, but it's a different culture with different scorers. You would still need to add some extra firepower or at least re-sign Radulov, but I wonder if they would go that route to avoid ''rebuilding'' fully?

[Bass56]

...Not trading for Duchene cost this team...

I don't think he could have saved the day by himself, but the fact that they didn't get any scorers at the deadline showed that they were comfortable with their offense (while most of us fans weren't). I get that a lot of factors were to be considered and that they most likely tried to get some help up front, but they didn't and as you say, it cost them!!

[JagrBomb]

I don't understand why there is even a mention of Price being the reason the Habs lost.

He had a sv% of .933 and GAA of 1.86.

those are incredible numbers for a goalie in playoffs. the habs scored 11 goals in 6 games, that's why they lost. there is no justification to blame price because he didn't go superhuman again and post even more ridiculous numbers. he was not outplayed by Lundqvist, the team in front of him was outplayed by the rangers.

bergevin is terrible. scoring has been their issue for years and he still hasn't learned. aside from radulov the rest of his moves (or lack of moves) were garbage. trading for a declining weber only made sense if bergevin felt their best window was to win now with price/pac/galchenyuk signed cheap. but then he goes and keeps sergachev instead of trading him for a C that they desperately need, which likely would have sent them to the conference final at minimum.

there is still one more year before the window will close. find a GM that will trade for scoring instead of size and has the balls to trade sergachev for duchene or someone similar.

[rataylor22]

I don't think he could have saved the day by himself, but the fact that they didn't get any scorers at the deadline showed that they were comfortable with their offense (while most of us fans weren't). I get that a lot of factors were to be considered and that they most likely tried to get some help up front, but they didn't and as you say, it cost them!!

Not single-handedly, no. It's just slotting. Duchene would instantly be the 1C. That gives Rads and Patches such a massive upgrade to play with and create offense. Also makes Montreal so much faster. And then the trickle down effect on the rest of the lineup is just so massive. It was very much like Calgary acquiring Michael Stone. Stone himself isn't the game changer, but it makes everyone else fit in the lineup so much better with a proper role, that it really upgrades the whole team.

- - - Updated - - -

bergevin is terrible. scoring has been their issue for years and he still hasn't learned. aside from radulov the rest of his moves (or lack of moves) were garbage. trading for a declining weber only made sense if bergevin felt their best window was to win now with price/pac/galchenyuk signed cheap. but then he goes and keeps sergachev instead of trading him for a C that they desperately need, which likely would have sent them to the conference final at minimum.

This is so exactly correct. Bergevin went "all-in" in the summer and then decided he was going halfway. The Weber moved signified there's no point waiting for your prospects, and then he was unwilling to trade his prospects. Dumb dumb dumb.

[ericdaoust]

THE MOST IMPORTANT DETAIL:

They added a bunch of size at the trade deadline.

[Bass56]

I don't understand why there is even a mention of Price being the reason the Habs lost.

He had a sv% of .933 and GAA of 1.86.

those are incredible numbers for a goalie in playoffs. the habs scored 11 goals in 6 games, that's why they lost.

I totally agree praba!! I just hate it when the media (or fans) say that Price will need to win the game/series for them. He's a goalie that posted GREAT numbers and he had little-to-no offensive support. I think some tend to say that Price wasn't ''good enough'' because the team is built around HIM but then again, that is one of the main flaws of this team!

Having him signed at his current cap-hit and not surrounding him with the firepower needed was a big mistake. He will let in 2 goals per game on average with a good SV% no matter how many shots he faces... just get him the offense needed to put 2-3 goals on the board and you will win more often than not with him. Banking on him to ''win you games'' where you score only 1 goal is not wise IMO.

[hockeyrobot]

I blame P.K. He was virtually invisible in this series.

Looooooooooooooooooooool

[agentzero]

In Montreal, I'd expect they will still make a ton of money and sell out every game even during a rebuild.

Trust me... we were shit for over half a century and we still sold out every game!

So were the Habs! Man, the dark ages of the 90s.... Teams with Chad Kilger... Zubrus.. Petrov... Dykhuis... oy... how terrible some of those teams were.. We had some top 10 picks.. some top 15 picks.. miffed them all.

I don't think a basement rebuild would do anything.. I think it's time to scrap this magical Trevor Timmins. For all of the gems, of which there aren't all that many, there have been a lot of miffed 1st round picks... I also think it's time to find a better pro development program.. since the picks aren't turning into great pros.. not with MTL anyway...

[Bass56]

Man, the dark ages of the 90s.... Teams with Chad Kilger... Zubrus.. Petrov... Dykhuis... oy... how terrible some of those teams were.. We had some top 10 picks.. some top 15 picks.. miffed them all.

I remember playing street hockey back in those days (late 90's) as a young teen and everyone wanted to be Koivu... there was literally no one else to be once Damphousse, Turgeon and Recchi had left!!!

I don't think a basement rebuild would do anything.. I think it's time to scrap this magical Trevor Timmins. For all of the gems, of which there aren't all that many, there have been a lot of miffed 1st round picks... I also think it's time to find a better pro development program.. since the picks aren't turning into great pros.. not with MTL anyway...

Very true. I don't consider Price as ''home-grown'' talent due to his pedigree. Guys like Pleky, Markov, Patches, Subban, Gallagher and maybe Galchenyuk are to be considereed... Markov, Subban and Pacioretty stand out... Leblanc and company also stand out on the other side of things though...

[agentzero]

I remember playing street hockey back in those days (late 90's) as a young teen and everyone wanted to be Koivu... there was literally no one else to be once Damphousse, Turgeon and Recchi had left!!!



Very true. I don't consider Price as ''home-grown'' talent due to his pedigree. Guys like Pleky, Markov, Patches, Subban, Gallagher and maybe Galchenyuk are to be considereed... Markov, Subban and Pacioretty stand out... Leblanc and company also stand out on the other side of things though...

I think I always picked being Pavel Bure as a kid because he was my favourite even though I was a Habs fan...

I love Saku (obviously). More so for his cancer battle, though. It was later in his career but I found it inspiring. Still do. Hard work, dedication and of course luck, but still. I think he was a great captain.

Draft picks!? oh dear....

Since 2000 (Timmins started in 2003).

00 Hainsey
01 Komisarek, Perezhogin
02 Higgins
03 Kostitsyn. His first pick ever and it was.......brutal. Maybe not enough time to prep.
04 Chipchura. In all fairness, very weak draft and made up for it with Streit like 7 rounds later I guess.
05 Price (obviously an excellent pick. Many teams were unprepared that year and you still had to take the guy that high.)
06 David Fischer (ahead of backyard francophone junior star Claude Giroux)
07 McDonagh and Max P. One is captaining the team that beat the other one the latter is captaining). I suppose good picks that Gainey miffed..
08 Traded pick for Alex Tanguay. I would have done that too. Josi and Carlson are in that class but I doubt they were projected to go so high. They were both medium term projects and the Habs needed scoring now.
09 Louis Leblanc (lesson: never host a draft at home). Weaker draft
10 Jarred Tinordi. Oh lord....
11 Beaulieu. He never really developed. He looked really good in junior but in hindsight, maybe because of his team. He played a pro style game at a young age.. but it never translated very well.
12 Galchenyuk
13 McCarron ahead of Shea Theodore... but then again, in the Habs system, maybe Theodore doesn't develop, just like Beaulieu.
14 Scherbak. I never liked the pick... Obviously Christian Dvorak should not have slid so low.. but the jury is still out.
15 Noah Juulesen. Way too early to tell... Seems ok so far.
16 Sergachev. Way too early to tell... Seems good so far.
17: None, since he will be fired, along with everyone else..

These were the first round only. Obviously there are a tonne of other rounds and there were some late gems (Grabovski) but still a lot of mistakes (Ben Maxwell over Milan Lucic? Man...!).

After over a decade, with all rounds considered, he has produced one superstar (Price) and some stars (Subban, McDonagh), some decent NHLers (Gallagher, Pacioretty) and some real bums. After the body of work though, it's still a little better than the previous regime.. but by no means elite. You don't want me to post the 90s.. Yeesh.... But in that decade, many teams didn't scout properly, so it's not just the Habs...


You really do have to finish in the lottery zone for like a decade in order to get some players to build around.. right Pittsburgh, Chicago, Edmonton, Toronto? Though Edmonton might be nowhere all that good if they don't get Talbot.