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Thread: Montreal Canadiens

  1. #6316
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    '05, '07, '12, '16... 1 great one, 1 really good one, 1 good one and 1 ''should-be-good'' one respectively.

    4 out of 17 drafts... that's not a passing grade for first round picks IMO!

    LOL, don't even get me started with '03... preparation or not, they drafted in the 10th spot and there was literally 6 stars that were drafted after their pick in the first round (Carter, Parise, Getzlaf, Burns, Kesler and Perry) and 4 really good NHLers (D. Brown, Seabrook, Richards and Eaves). There was also a bunch of stars drafted in the 2nd (and 1 in the 7th) AFTER the Habs selected Corey Urquhart including Bergeron, Weber, Crawford, Backes and even Pavelski (in the 7th... but no one could have predicted his success IMO)
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    C- Crosby, Barzal, Bennett, Schmaltz, Novak
    W- Forsberg, Batherson, Nichuskin, Tuch, Konecny, Maccelli, Sharangovich, Bertuzzi, Kaliyev, Neighbours, Reichel
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  2. #6317
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Can we all just agree that the Habs need to burn the barn down and rebuild it?

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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    I think we can certainly agree to not take a single word Marc Bergevin says at face value. I'd personally be embarrassed if my credibility was such a zero that the real answer to any question asked to him is "why bother, the words he say mean shit".

    I'm obviously not in that market, but I've long thought MTL completely hamstrings themselves with their francophone requirements for high profile positions. Especially in an age where translation between languages is so simple.

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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    I think it was just a year or so ago that people were saying how Galchenyuk was the best thing to come out of the 2012 draft. Now reading this thread, its funny to see how many think he's not the player the Habs thought he would become and should be traded to improve the team. Many are too quick to give up on him but whatever. One more player to prove that this draft was a dud at the top I guess, if you believe everything you read here.
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  5. #6320
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I think it was just a year or so ago that people were saying how Galchenyuk was the best thing to come out of the 2012 draft. Now reading this thread, its funny to see how many think he's not the player the Habs thought he would become and should be traded to improve the team. Many are too quick to give up on him but whatever. One more player to prove that this draft was a dud at the top I guess, if you believe everything you read here.
    For what it's worth, I wouldn't trade him.. I would have him play his ass off at C until he learns the position.. wins or losses.. It's his natural spot and he needs to have the puck on his stick and distribute it (and NOT to the other team.....). 2012 was indeed a weak draft at the top... I'd feel so much worse had we won the lottery and taken Nail... though I have a feeling they were taking Galchenyuk all the way. He's the guy I wanted for the Habs. They just gotta get him some confidence at the C position.
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  6. #6321
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    I'm obviously not in that market, but I've long thought MTL completely hamstrings themselves with their francophone requirements for high profile positions. Especially in an age where translation between languages is so simple.
    As far as I know that was most important for the coach rather than the GM but I could be wrong.. I don't think it's so crazy to have that criteria. Their market is mostly francophone and they tailor to it.. I don't think the problem is a lack of talented francophones... It's a lack of talented francophones within the Habs organization. There are plenty elsewhere.. and the Habs have had plenty in the past... Scottie Bowman speaks French and I'm pretty sure he kicked ass as a coach. Claude Julien is excellent. Vigneault beat the Habs. Boucher is coaching in the second round. Julien Brisebois tells Stevie Y how to handle contracts... Pierre Dorion does it in Ottawa.. Gerard Gallant is coaching Vegas. There are a lot of talented francos.. we just need some more within the Bleu Blanc Rouge.
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Quote Originally Posted by agentzero View Post
    As far as I know that was most important for the coach rather than the GM but I could be wrong.. I don't think it's so crazy to have that criteria. Their market is mostly francophone and they tailor to it.. I don't think the problem is a lack of talented francophones... It's a lack of talented francophones within the Habs organization. There are plenty elsewhere.. and the Habs have had plenty in the past... Scottie Bowman speaks French and I'm pretty sure he kicked ass as a coach. Claude Julien is excellent. Vigneault beat the Habs. Boucher is coaching in the second round. Julien Brisebois tells Stevie Y how to handle contracts... Pierre Dorion does it in Ottawa.. Gerard Gallant is coaching Vegas. There are a lot of talented francos.. we just need some more within the Bleu Blanc Rouge.
    It's not really a comment on lack of talent. You're deliberately limiting your chance at success. Are there lots of talented francophones? Sure. There's also lots of talented non-francophones. And frankly, the ratio is getting bigger, not smaller. If I was a MTL fan, I would want the best option, not the best french option. I would want my team to have the best chance at winning, not the best chance at winning with a francophone. And embracing success wouldn't be determined by the language the coach and GM spoke while having that success. I'd hope MTL fans highest priority is winning, but if being francophone is so important to their job openings, than clearly winning ISN'T the highest priority. No other business hampers their progress and success in this manner.

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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    I'm definitely in the camp of wanting to move on from strictly francophones being in key positions. It's 2017. The team policy only caters to a minority of loud and intolerant people. Not just fans but in politics too. I'd just tell them to stick it and move on.


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  9. #6324
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    It's not really a comment on lack of talent. You're deliberately limiting your chance at success. Are there lots of talented francophones? Sure. There's also lots of talented non-francophones. And frankly, the ratio is getting bigger, not smaller. If I was a MTL fan, I would want the best option, not the best french option. I would want my team to have the best chance at winning, not the best chance at winning with a francophone. And embracing success wouldn't be determined by the language the coach and GM spoke while having that success. I'd hope MTL fans highest priority is winning, but if being francophone is so important to their job openings, than clearly winning ISN'T the highest priority. No other business hampers their progress and success in this manner.
    The funniest thing in all of this is that the Canadiens are actually the English club from Montr?al.. there were two and French club, le National, went bankrupt after its equipment and arena were destroyed in a fire.. It took time before the francophones adopted the Habs as their team, which in all of this debate is actually quite comical to me.

    The Habs are a business and a club. Their fandom is a sort of social club. People can adhere if they want to and for all of the reasons they want to. I wouldn't go as far to state that NO other business hampers its progress and success in this manner, as many businesses curtail their opportunities for growth and "success" for all kinds of reasons that can be said to have some kind of social value. How much social value and how many people adhere to those values is certainly unknown, though probably quantifiable in some measure. It is probably the reason why the Habs have this kind of policy in place and why other businesses have similar policies.. like choosing to go an extra mile to print menus in French..or website translation or for environmental reasons, say, using only green products or something, even at greater cost, but to cater to a group of environmentalists the business has identified as its target market or audience... as I said, even if it costs them more or even costs them a share in a less-environmentally-friendly customer base. There are many examples of businesses trading a certain amount of success in favour of some social goal or ideal in which they believe or which forms part of their social business values.

    This appears to be one for the Habs. People can dislike it if they want to, but then again they don't have to be Habs fans either...

    I also find it funny that many of their legends from time passed were not francophones at all...Winning cures everything sometimes.. certainly in hindsight.

    Their new coach is a top 5 coach in hockey. He is francophone but he is a Cup winner and is excellent. So, criteria or not, they were able to pretty well land the best coach available. Might be different had he not been, but just goes to my earlier point that there is elite talent available, even in a restricted pool and that restricted pool is large enough to include plenty to choose from AND, those choices often include, if not almost always, elite choices.

    As far as the GM position is concerned.. that one is more important to have as bilingual, for the interactions with the business community, political community, media and fans.. It is pretty well a must. The position of President? Even more important for all of the same reasons. This company does business primarily in QC.

    Lastly though and again just for fun, the Molson company was very much founded by an English family who probably did not speak much French.. then again, maybe they did, since French was the international diplomatic and contractual language for a long time... but I'll bet against it. Old John Molson probably didn't speak French.. but he sold a lot of beer in Qu?bec, enough to own the Habs (I think more than once, no?).
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  10. #6325
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    If I was a MTL fan, I would want the best option, not the best french option. I would want my team to have the best chance at winning, not the best chance at winning with a francophone.
    Quote Originally Posted by ericdaoust View Post
    I'm definitely in the camp of wanting to move on from strictly francophones being in key positions. It's 2017. The team policy only caters to a minority of loud and intolerant people. Not just fans but in politics too. I'd just tell them to stick it and move on.
    Being a billingual Montrealer, I would want the best team possible, regardless of origin or language. If you want the Bell Centre's announcers to be purely French, I don't care. But when looking for a coach, other personnel or players, there is no reason not to pick the BPA! I get it that coaches have to speak to journalists and all, but subtitles and translators are great for that. As it stands, 90% of what the players say is being translated, especially when it comes to important players.

    Claude Julien is a great coach and he just happens to speak French. That's fine! But if a guy like Boudreau was available and the Habs still had Therrien, I'm not so sure the fire&hire would have occurred!

    Same thing goes for players... If you want Francophone players, why overlook some top names when you have a chance to draft/sign them? Here's a list of players on the top of my head that went later in drafts or who were signed after going undrafted: Bergeron, Giroux, Letang, Keith, Richards, Crawford, Burrows, Vlasic, Duclair, Killorn,... I get it, at the time, those guys weren't the BPA on paper but if your policy is that important, how can you overlook those names in favour of players that never made it to the NHL or no longer play in most cases!!

    Anyways, I agree with you guys
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    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-HITS-BLK-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Barzal, Bennett, Schmaltz, Novak
    W- Forsberg, Batherson, Nichuskin, Tuch, Konecny, Maccelli, Sharangovich, Bertuzzi, Kaliyev, Neighbours, Reichel
    D- Carlson, Rielly, Klingberg
    G- Hellebuyck, Demko, Merzlikins, Vejmelka

    Minors:
    F: Fantilli, Cooley, Bourgault, Perreault, Cowan, Ohgren, N. Foote, Goyette, Iskhakov, Denisenko, Tracey
    D: Simashev, Willander, Lambos
    G: Schmidt, Rodrigue, DiPietro, Gaudreau, McKay

  11. #6326
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    I still can't believe they didn't select Junior standout Claude Giroux. Oh man.......

    FWIW, I don't really care if the coach or GM speaks French or not. I happen to like it, but if it wasn't the case, in favour of a better candidate, then I wouldn't care. It seems like it happens to be a club policy and I can see that it is so for several reasons and those reasons are not necessarily stupid. They are rational, business, policy and heritage reasons (to some extent) and I respect that.

    I can appreciate it's not the cup of tea of some other fans and certainly when it comes to players, holy man should that crap not matter... but Saku Koivu didn't speak French and he is still my hero.
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    Saros, Shesterkin
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  12. #6327
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Quote Originally Posted by agentzero View Post
    I still can't believe they didn't select Junior standout Claude Giroux. Oh man.......
    Boy, I can only imagine what it would have done to the franchise. Forget landing that elusive elite number-1 centre... just in terms of attracting FA players during those stretches... it would be a whole different story today IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by agentzero View Post
    FWIW, I don't really care if the coach or GM speaks French or not. I happen to like it, but if it wasn't the case, in favour of a better candidate, then I wouldn't care.
    Exactly! Same here; I like listening to 98.5, 91.9, RDS and TVA and hearing the coach/gm/certain players speak directly to the french media, but if it was a matter of hearing those interviews vs getting a better candidate; it's a no-brainer! Unfortunately, I think the team policy thinks otherwise...

    Imagine if teams like Anaheim, San Jose and Florida had to get people that are able to speak Spanish for the reporters working for Spanish stations. I understand that market is not as developed as the French market in Montreal, but it most likely caters to more individuals in terms of population numbers. I think the French-side of Montreal claimed the Habs as theirs but I'm fairly certain that the Anglo-side is pretty close in numbers. It is a bilingual fan-base, but the ''product'' is more English. By product, I mean players and coaches. Why limit yourself to a niche ''product'' when other teams aren't? I get that they will get the BPA in MOST cases, but why not do it in ALL cases. Fans want to WIN more than anything. Don't get me wrong, the pieces in place are really good and it's great that we have a billigual coach and some players that can speak to French media. I'm just talking about the internal policy that seems to be brought up every time a draft or hiring comes along.
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    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-HITS-BLK-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Barzal, Bennett, Schmaltz, Novak
    W- Forsberg, Batherson, Nichuskin, Tuch, Konecny, Maccelli, Sharangovich, Bertuzzi, Kaliyev, Neighbours, Reichel
    D- Carlson, Rielly, Klingberg
    G- Hellebuyck, Demko, Merzlikins, Vejmelka

    Minors:
    F: Fantilli, Cooley, Bourgault, Perreault, Cowan, Ohgren, N. Foote, Goyette, Iskhakov, Denisenko, Tracey
    D: Simashev, Willander, Lambos
    G: Schmidt, Rodrigue, DiPietro, Gaudreau, McKay

  13. #6328
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    It looks fairly obvious that management have had it with Beaulieu and are ready to cut ties. It'd be a shame to lose him to Vegas for noting, though, so I hope they do protect him or figure out a trade.

    As for Galchenyuk, boy when I listen to his post-season scrum I just want to reach through the screen and give him a few good smacks. More than a few, actually. Same entitled attitude as Nate the Great, but in his case he oozes talent and has star player upside.

    Not sure if management think he's still salvageable, but if they don't I wonder if the two couldn't be packaged to get a center.

    And I, for one, am glad they kept Sergachev. This team is already lacking a top-4 D and Markov won't keep up for much longer. When a guy who could barely make the top 6 on one of the worst D in the league is heralded as the best trade acquisition of the season, you know your blue line is suspect.

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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Habs have apparently signed Jakub Jerabek out of the KHL. Undersized D with good offensive numbers.


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  15. #6330
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    Default Re: Montreal Canadiens

    Assistant coach Clement Jodoin ''quits''. Seems like an odd move:

    http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/l...dien-1.4481750
    Keeper league 14 teams (H2H, 20 active players keep 16 NHLers, 16 minors)
    Scoring Cats: G-A-PTS-PPG-PPA-(+/-)-HITS-BLK-SHP-SOG-FOW-GWG / W-L-SVS-SV%-GAA-SO

    C- Crosby, Barzal, Bennett, Schmaltz, Novak
    W- Forsberg, Batherson, Nichuskin, Tuch, Konecny, Maccelli, Sharangovich, Bertuzzi, Kaliyev, Neighbours, Reichel
    D- Carlson, Rielly, Klingberg
    G- Hellebuyck, Demko, Merzlikins, Vejmelka

    Minors:
    F: Fantilli, Cooley, Bourgault, Perreault, Cowan, Ohgren, N. Foote, Goyette, Iskhakov, Denisenko, Tracey
    D: Simashev, Willander, Lambos
    G: Schmidt, Rodrigue, DiPietro, Gaudreau, McKay

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