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Thread: New York Rangers

  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    i am sorry but as a coach you send the wrong message when you only call certain players out on poor play

    you teach the kids coming up that it is more important to be a superstar than it is to work your ass off and that is the wrong message to send to the kids

    this isnt just a matter of gaborik not scoring or blowing some coverage defensively

    the guy doesnt look like he is trying as hard as many of the other players on the team

    teams that win do so because they give the icetime to the players that are playing well this year not the ones that did so last year

    i dont know why people insist on making excuses for this one player who has had issues with his desire since long before he put on a rangers uniform

    the only person alienating gabby is gabby i guarantee that he would be getting plenty of icetime if he busted his ass even if he wasnt scoring

    but to expect him to get icetime when he not only isnt scoring but is on the ice for multiple goals against is some games is crazy talk imo

    Obviously all players are not the same, so adapting some egalitarian approach just isn't going to work.

    It's easy for us to say that these guys are being paid millions of dollars so they should just perform and STFU. Unfortunately, that just doesn't work in the real world for a myriad of reasons.

    It's Gabby's job to skate and score goals - that's why they signed him. They didn't sign him because of his spectacular two-way prowess.

    It's Tort's job to motivate and get the best from all his players. By that definition, he's falling down on the job just as badly.

    If it were just a matter of enforcing a simple code of discipline, then any given hardass could lead his team to a Stanley Cup.

    I prefer Jimmy's approach. I can see the wisdom in it, and I can see the results.
    Last edited by Instant Karma; March 18, 2013 at 6:28 PM.
    10-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, Barkov, Draisaitl (RW), Stepan
    LW: Schwartz, Forsberg (C, RW), Saad (RW), Skinner (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, R. Johansen (C), Silfverberg (RW)
    D: Shattenkirk, Carlson, Muzzin, Lindholm
    G: Fleury, M.Jones, Murray, Reimer

    IR:

  2. #437
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    so let me get this straight he is supposed to get millions of dollars and he is supposed to have his balls coddled when he fails to do anything resembling attempting to earn that money

    sorry as far as i am concerned that is bullshit

    the more money you make the more your ass should get kicked

    what a wuss bag world this has turned into

  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    so let me get this straight he is supposed to get millions of dollars and he is supposed to have his balls coddled when he fails to do anything resembling attempting to earn that money

    sorry as far as i am concerned that is bullshit

    the more money you make the more your ass should get kicked

    what a wuss bag world this has turned into
    Look, like I said, it's all very fine to say that, but if it doesn't motivate the player, what good does it do?

    So, everyone's being disciplined in your locker room the same way, but your team's losing and your star players aren't performing.

    They're not out for an egalitarian workplace here, that's not the goal, They're supposed to be winning a cup.

    So, maybe it's Gaborik's fault, perhaps he should be more self-motivated.

    But he's apparently not. All players can't be motivated the same way. This isn't the Marine Corps where you can just make him drill and clean latrines until he shapes up.

    So, what are you going to do about it? Let your team lose just so you can make your point with the guy? That's not good coaching, IMHO.
    10-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, Barkov, Draisaitl (RW), Stepan
    LW: Schwartz, Forsberg (C, RW), Saad (RW), Skinner (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, R. Johansen (C), Silfverberg (RW)
    D: Shattenkirk, Carlson, Muzzin, Lindholm
    G: Fleury, M.Jones, Murray, Reimer

    IR:

  4. #439
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    why is it so hard to expect this guy to sack up for crying out loud

    seriously have we become such liberal wussbags that the very idea that a 31 year old man being a ****ing man is somehow a controversial thing

    he is a grown man being paid a shit load of money he should either man up or quit but dont give me this shit how he needs someone to stroke him and tell him everything is going to be ok to get him going

    you know i make fun of many of the guys that pine for the good old days of the game but in a case like this i agree with them

    it is a kids game if it is too difficult for you psychologically then take your millions and go home already

  5. #440
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    well game is about to start gabby could use a nice hat trick to shut everyone up for a little while

  6. #441
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    oh and torts spent the whole morning showing the team tape of their goals this season

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    why is it so hard to expect this guy to sack up for crying out loud
    Because, everyone simply doesn't share your mindset or your sense of discipline or your motivations or your expectations.

    In short, everyone is different. It may seem aggravating to you, but it's what makes life interesting. I don't think a world where everyone walks in lockstep and consistently meets your expectations would be all that interesting, to tell you the truth.

    It's the coach's job to know this and to act accordingly. If it were just a matter of liberal=bad and conservative=good, then you could find yourself a good Republican to run your team and win yourself a Cup.

    (BTW, I don't think anyone ever once accused Jimmy Johnson of being too liberal. He would cut players for fumbling or dropping passes. He just wouldn't cut his star players. He knew when it was time to teach an object lesson and instill some fear, and when that kind of thing would be counter-productive.)

    The idea is to get the most out of your team, period. It's not a matter of teaching object lessons. It's a matter of scoring goals so you can win games and hopefully put butts into those seats.

    Maybe Gaborik is beyond motivating. If it were just him I'd be much more inclined to blame him. But I don't think Brad Richards is either unmotivated or a prima donna. He won a Conn Smythe. So I'm going to guess that there's something else at work here.
    10-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, Barkov, Draisaitl (RW), Stepan
    LW: Schwartz, Forsberg (C, RW), Saad (RW), Skinner (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, R. Johansen (C), Silfverberg (RW)
    D: Shattenkirk, Carlson, Muzzin, Lindholm
    G: Fleury, M.Jones, Murray, Reimer

    IR:

  8. #443
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    you expect the coach to be able to motivate a loser player but you dont expect a man to be able to motivate himself thats rich it really is

    torts should lose his job because he is allegedly failing as a coach yet the players failures dont fall on them they fall on the coach instead

    this is what i mean about liberal bullshit no one takes responsibility for their own failures

    it is the fault of every coach he has played for that gaborik is a soft gutless oneway player who doesnt give two shits about his team it is not his fault

    apparently none of them figured out a way to motivate him properly

    and i could care less about some cowgirl btw and he has zero relevance to this discussion if you have a hard on for the guy take it to a cowgirl message board

    you know what whatever i am never going to buy into this bullshit idea that players are not responsible for their own play no matter how many times you try to post that it is the case so dont bother as we are going in circles

    i believe that a player is responsible to a large degree for their play and nothing you or anyone else can say will change that

  9. #444
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    Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord 23s

    #NYR confirm same lineup tonight with Lundqvist in net. So Gilroy and Bickel remain healthy scratches.

  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    you expect the coach to be able to motivate a loser player
    No. That's not what I said. What I said is that it's the coach's function to motivate his players and get the best effort out of the players that he has.

    Whether he is able to accomplish that another matter entirely. But the first step to success is often recognizing that your methods aren't working and that another approach might be called for.

    I repeat, the goal is not to teach object lessons or win some moral argument with the player(s).

    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    but you dont expect a man to be able to motivate himself thats rich it really is
    It may be "rich", but that's the world of professional sports, my friend. It was like that before I got here and it will continue to be like that long after I'm gone.

    After all, I'm not the one who coined the phrase "It's hard to make players hungry when they're full."

    If you find the situation offensive to your sensibilities, that's your problem. But don't lay it at my feet as if I somehow endorse it. I'm just telling you that it's the reality of the world that we find ourselves in.
    10-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, Barkov, Draisaitl (RW), Stepan
    LW: Schwartz, Forsberg (C, RW), Saad (RW), Skinner (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, R. Johansen (C), Silfverberg (RW)
    D: Shattenkirk, Carlson, Muzzin, Lindholm
    G: Fleury, M.Jones, Murray, Reimer

    IR:

  11. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post

    and i could care less about some cowgirl btw and he has zero relevance to this discussion if you have a hard on for the guy take it to a cowgirl message board
    If you don't see the relevance simply because one is football and the other is hockey, I think that says everything we need to know about your rather narrow mindset on this subject.

    If you want to dismiss the argument, then do it with something more substantive than that they are two different sports. Clearly I was well aware of that when I first posed the argument.

    The idea is how to motivate (or demotivate, as the case may be) professional athletes who are being paid millions of dollars and are not always the self-motivated individuals we would hope they would be.
    10-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, Barkov, Draisaitl (RW), Stepan
    LW: Schwartz, Forsberg (C, RW), Saad (RW), Skinner (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, R. Johansen (C), Silfverberg (RW)
    D: Shattenkirk, Carlson, Muzzin, Lindholm
    G: Fleury, M.Jones, Murray, Reimer

    IR:

  12. #447
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    well i have to say i completely disagree with the idea of the cheerleader coach as opposed to the strategic coach

    if that is the reality then perhaps i should stop watching sports

    if the job of a coach is to stroke his players egos as opposed to putting the best players on the ice at the right times then you dont need a coach just higher a bunch of head shrinkers

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    well i have to say i completely disagree with the idea of the cheerleader coach as opposed to the strategic coach

    if that is the reality then perhaps i should stop watching sports

    if the job of a coach is to stroke his players egos as opposed to putting the best players on the ice at the right times then you dont need a coach just higher a bunch of head shrinkers
    Why do you insist on characterizing things like "cheerleader coach"? Don't you see that that is a silly argument to make?

    I'm not saying he has to be a "cheerleader coach". Where do you come up with this crappy over-simplistic way of rephrasing everything anyone tries to tell you?

    I'm saying he has to be flexible and deal with different personalities in effective ways.

    That's his function. What exactly is it about that concept that is so difficult to understand?

    A DI at Parris Island and an NHL coach are to entirely different jobs with two entirely different methodologies. The DI is not dealing with thirty year-olds who live in penthouses and make $7 million per.

    If it were that simple, you could just find thirty-odd ex-DIs and install them around the league.
    10-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, Barkov, Draisaitl (RW), Stepan
    LW: Schwartz, Forsberg (C, RW), Saad (RW), Skinner (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, R. Johansen (C), Silfverberg (RW)
    D: Shattenkirk, Carlson, Muzzin, Lindholm
    G: Fleury, M.Jones, Murray, Reimer

    IR:

  14. #449
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    30 year olds making $7m shouldnt need motivation period end of sentence

    that is the problem i have with anything you are saying this idea that a grown man playing a kids game while making millions of dollars needs some other grown man to make him feel good about himself in order to play well

    it is bullshit and if that is what modern sports is that is why modern sports is bullshit

    maybe these crybaby losers need to go back to making next to nothing and having to have another job because hockey doesnt pay them enough maybe they should have real problems like real people then i might feel an ounce of sympathy for their 'plight'

    i am sorry but this is bullshit they are grown men i already said it they should sack up or quit the game and let someone with the constitution for it play

    you can attempt to spin it as many different ways as you want to but at the end of the day you are ok with grown men acting like women

    thats fine that is your business but dont tell me that i have to believe the same nonsense

    i dont want players that are 'soft' in any way shape or form on my team

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucifer316 View Post
    30 year olds making $7m shouldnt need motivation period end of sentence

    that is the problem i have with anything you are saying this idea that a grown man playing a kids game while making millions of dollars needs some other grown man to make him feel good about himself in order to play well

    it is bullshit and if that is what modern sports is that is why modern sports is bullshit

    maybe these crybaby losers need to go back to making next to nothing and having to have another job because hockey doesnt pay them enough maybe they should have real problems like real people then i might feel an ounce of sympathy for their 'plight'

    i am sorry but this is bullshit they are grown men i already said it they should sack up or quit the game and let someone with the constitution for it play

    you can attempt to spin it as many different ways as you want to but at the end of the day you are ok with grown men acting like women

    thats fine that is your business but dont tell me that i have to believe the same nonsense

    i dont want players that are 'soft' in any way shape or form on my team
    Unfortunately, you're neither a king nor a god (or even an NHL GM), so you can't turn your perceptions about how the world should work into reality.

    The main difference between you and I here is that I'm both honest and realistic enough to realize that I'm going to work my ass off 24/7 in order to make that first $7 mil.

    For the next $7 million, I'll still go at it pretty damn hard, but not like I did for that first $ 7 mil.

    But when it gets to be $28 million or so, assuming I haven't blown all of it, I'm beginning to run out of ideas on how to spend it all of it. And the coach continually barking in my ear about getting my ass back on defense seems a bit less important than it might have five years ago. Why are they paying me $7 million just so this tool can bark at me?

    When you get over this delusion of yours that millionaire professional athletes are all self-motivated and share your Protestant work ethic, get back to me and we can have a discussion.
    10-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, Barkov, Draisaitl (RW), Stepan
    LW: Schwartz, Forsberg (C, RW), Saad (RW), Skinner (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, R. Johansen (C), Silfverberg (RW)
    D: Shattenkirk, Carlson, Muzzin, Lindholm
    G: Fleury, M.Jones, Murray, Reimer

    IR:

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