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Thread: Anyone have faith in Turco?

  1. #46
    mister_mcgoo's Avatar
    mister_mcgoo is offline
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    My stock in shootout wins is ONLY a direct reply to your "middle of the pack" answer regarding his proficiency in shootouts and breakaways. It's tough to say for sure what weight it plays in overall fantasy value, but obviously the stats show that Turco is one of the best at shootouts since they were installed in the NHL.
    Well it was originally YOUR question, so clearly you value it and feel it represents part of what makes up a good goalie or you'd never have posed it in the first place!
    And I never said shootout wins weren't an interesting stat to look at, only that they're largely meaningless when compared to S%. If a goalie wins the shootout by virtue of going second and makes one save while the opposing goalie give up two goals, what does that prove? Not much really IMO, I'd way rather have the guy who can stop the higher percentage of attempts, in my mind thats a more valuable asset.

    How can you possibly say that winning a lot of shootouts DOESN'T mean he has big-save ability? You can't have one without the other.
    Did you not read my post??? There are a half dozen factors completely unrelated to the goalie's actual play that come into play with whether you win the shootout or not. Whereas whether you actually stop the puck or not is a total absolute,its either a goal or a save. Since you are so fond of absolutes it would seem you'd like that no?

    It's a joke if you don't think Turco has big-save ability. Not ALWAYS, but sometimes, he does. It's obvious, come on.
    Again, I'm starting to suspect you skimmed thru my post and didnt read very carefully. Try reading what I actually wrote versus what you imagine me to be saying. The answer I provided to your question "Does Turco have "big-save" ability?" I responded 'Occassionally'. Is that not precisely what you just said above -lol

    I didn't mix your questions up at all. You said Manny Fernandez has the ability to "pull off" a couple of wins and that it "doesn't mean shit" ... if it doesn't mean shit then why did you even say anything about Fernandez???? That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I asked you if Turco can win games single-handedly from time to time and you said "Not Really." Uhhhhhh okay, "Not Really" to me means that you know he can and you know he has before, but you don't want to agree with the fact he has the legitimate skills to do it. Everyone knows that Turco HAS won games by being the first star of the game and he will do it again this year at some point. Your answers to those questions sound a lot more like you just didn't want to say yes . Nothing wrong with being stubborn though...
    No dude, I'm actually making a very simple point that I think you might be reading alot more into than was intended. I chose Fernandez randomly as another mediocre goalie who I've seen play phenomenally on occassion. But consistency to me is a huge part of what makes a strong netminder. Its not a direct comparison that I'm trying to suggest, it was just a name I pulled out of the air. The point that you were supposed to take away from it was that you could ask the question "Can [INSERT GOLAIE NAME] win hockey games single-handedly from time to time?" about virtually any tender in the league and the answer is invariably 'Yes', none of these guys would have even made it to the NHL if they couldn't do it from 'time to time', the question is not well phrased, thats why I gave you the answer I did. Would I take Turco over Fernandez? Of course, I think most people would but again, that wasn't what I was saying.

    How can I falsely assume questions that I created???? I asked the questions, dude LOL. I said to ANSWER YES OR NO to them. Of course that makes them "absolutes" but only in the context of me asking them in a rhetorical manner.
    The point was, if you want to ask questions thats fine, but you cant just arbitrarily declare that they are as simple as 'Yes' or 'No' just because you mandate it...especially when the topic is far more in depth than that. Expecting a 'Yes' or 'No' from half of those questions is the equivalent of me asking you the following and demanding you only answer either yes or no:

    1)what's your favorite color?
    2)which pie do you like the best? apple, blueberry or cherry?
    3)how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

    Is he fast? DONT COMPARE IT TO ANY OTHER GOALIE. He's fast as hell and he has the ability to make lightning quick glove saves. Case closed. It's that simple. He can do it, he has the skill and the ability. Whether he's fast compared to you or compared to Jonas Hiller doesn't mean anything ... again, this is about TURCO, not Turco compared to another goalie or the average skill in the league.
    I realize that its about Turco, I may be stubborn but I'm not obtuse. But the term 'fast' is a subjective evaluation. You might think he's the fastest you've ever seen, I might think he's as slow as molasses, someone else might say he's average, etc. Unless you put a frame of reference in place, some quantitative scale or measurement, then the term 'fast' is effectively meaningless and can certainly not be answered by a yes or no. That's the only reason I even introduced the notion of comparing him to something else? Pick whatever you want, Speedy Gonzales, the Flash, a gazelle, whatever.

    But there's no need to attack my logic and my reasoning for posing questions in here about him. I'm getting you people to understand goaltending from the mind of a goaltender, you should be thanking me for bringing you the other side of analysis that you have no understanding of unless you've been a competitive goalie for 15+ years.
    No ones attacking your logic I dont think, but the heart of debate is to disprove your opponents arguments thru counterarguments...

    If Turco totally blows it, I'll buy you a soda
    I'll hold you to that, but again you hafta define these things if you wanna have a true wager...what would you consider 'totally blowing it'? What kind of numbers would he need to post to qualify or that?

  2. #47
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    All good points, all taken without any need to respond to your responses LOL.

    I would say that truthfully, I probably did mis-interpret some of your points. I did read all of your posts in-depth, as I always have and always will with anyone that poses questions related to goalies on here. The posts that I don't respond to are either because the other responses are what I would answer, or the question in and of itself is not too pertinent or important in my mind, or might be too incohesive.

    It is a compliment to you and your understanding of the goaltending position that I took so much time to type up my thoughts and go back and forth with the topic for a few days. As we both have said (and many others have said), it's all amazing analysis and we have left no stone unturned in Turco's game ... that is always the goal when discussing goaltending.

    So cheers to us!!!

    Unfortunately great discussion and great points made by both sides are fairly often mis-interpreted because it's impossible to catch tone, enthusiasm, stresses or sarcasm within a post...it's up to how we read the posts in our mind. If we were doing this on a radio show, it probably would have made a lot more sense LOL.

    Ultimately - we'll see what happens with Turco. Read my School of Block column tomorrow on the Predators' goalies - it somewhat relates to not only Turco, but every single goalie in the league. They can often fall victim to circumstances beyond their control.

    Good stuff all around and can't wait for the season to get underway so we can watch these situations play themselves out!!

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