Anyone have faith in Turco?

[GoalieGuild]

For the record, I FACKIN love rankings fantasy style!!! (said in my best Bubbles voice - TPB4LIFE!)

THOMAS
BACKSTROM
WARD
MASON

I would say Thomas is going to continue to stay as consistent as ever. I really like his chances of being Team USA starter and it's just going to be a great ride for him. Yes, anything could happen, but Thomas is a rock...literally...the dude has like no neck LOL.

Backstrom is just as consistent, poised, stalwart and experienced as Thomas, just for not as many years LOL. I have heard very little about him over the summer, which is a good thing. He does the same routine as every summer, goes back to Finland and works with guys like Sulander and of course his goalie coach Jukka Ropponen. Couldn't ask for a better systematic approach to preparing for a regular season. Also just to note - I don't care what I hear from the Wild (or their goofy bloggers) about Harding playing more games...Backstrom won't let that happen. And like I said before, Minnesota will be entrenched in much more of a battle for points in the Northwest Division than they were last year. Every single team improved (CAL, EDM, COL w/ Anderson, VAN) in some way or another, so intra-divisional games are going to be more and more important as the season goes along, making Harding less and less valuable.

Ward above Mason is a pretty easy choice to make due to the fact Ward has more experience.

One of the best arguments I can think of that would cause my head to explode would be Hiller vs. SMason ............. wow I better stop right there lol.

[bluejays]

Turco has been a great netminder for a number of years posting great wins, but for a number of years he has come up flat. I've had him for a number of years only to be dissapointed by his stats and the "Avery" factor that he blammed his terrible season on. Here are his last 3 yrs:
2006-07 Dallas Stars NHL 67 4 18 3764 140 5 6 2.23 38 20 5 1424 0.910
2007-08 Dallas Stars NHL 62 3 16 3629 140 5 3 2.32 32 21 6 1403 0.909
2008-09 Dallas Stars NHL 74 5 18 4327 203 8 3 2.81 33 31 10 1790 0.898

See that save percentage? I realize there is new management and new (younger) D but that Save % speaks volume. Unless he plays unbelievable in the first half (which ain't gonna happen from the past), he will be another UFA bargain. But, there are some powerhouse teams that could be looking in 10-11 (Det, Phi, TB)....but unless you can have him cheap, move on.

[mister_mcgoo]

heres my take on Turco...he has NEVER been a very good goalie, he's the quintessential 'only a product of my team' netminder from the Chris Osgood school o goaltending, he's good enough to give his team a chance to win...and when the team in front o him is solid, that's usually what happens. But why does he choke in the playoffs every year? And why does he fall apart when the team in front of him is weak? Simple, he's mediocre at best. Good goalies play well even when their team struggles, they keep them in the game...great goalies steal those games when they have no business winning. Poor goalies fold under the heat, guess which Turco is?

All the 'prognisticators' predicting a comeback season are doing so because they can't possibly be wrong...it would be almost impossible for Turco to play worse than he did last year and now he has a healthy team in front of him, he cant NOT be better

[NYR9394]

I actually did say something very similar a few months ago about Turco how he was a product of his team's defensive systems in the past. I think it could be different this year with the new training and coaching.

So, I guess Turco's value for you really becomes this: How good do you think Dallas will be this year?

[GMGates]

Here's a Turco story...

I picked up turco for the last two years in my money leagues. He's let me down so many times and he is so frustrating to have on your fantasy team. So many games in the last two years leave me shaking my head in doubt and make me embarrassed to have picked him not only once but two seasons in a row!

Needless to say I am never ever picking Turco in any league EVER!!!

Sorry, just wanted to vent a bit! haha

Oh and I have a stick signed by him:

[NYR9394]

You could always burn it for good luck?

[mapletreemarty]

How exactly did Turco choke in the playoffs when he stood on his head to knock off the Sharks two years ago?? He was the only reason they made it to the Conference Finals to begin with...2.08 GAA and .922 save % in the playoffs that year. Oh and it's difficult to beat the Wings when your team only scores 10 goals in 6 games...

I'm a Turco owner, and he's not my favourite goalie and perhaps hasn't been the greatest fantasy asset, however, he's a little more talented than what a lof of people make him out to be.

[mister_mcgoo]

How exactly did Turco choke in the playoffs when he stood on his head to knock off the Sharks two years ago?? He was the only reason they made it to the Conference Finals to begin with...2.08 GAA and .922 save % in the playoffs that year. Oh and it's difficult to beat the Wings when your team only scores 10 goals in 6 games...

I'm a Turco owner, and he's not my favourite goalie and perhaps hasn't been the greatest fantasy asset, however, he's a little more talented than what a lof of people make him out to be.

spoken like a true owner -lol
like I said, he's just an osgood clone, the Stars have been a consistently top notch team for years, thats the only reason he's posted good numbers...when the going gets tough, the tough get going...certain goalies elevate their team thru their play (Roy, Hasek, etc) others (like Turco) are elevated BY their team, don't confuse the two

[mapletreemarty]

spoken like a true owner -lol
like I said, he's just an osgood clone, the Stars have been a consistently top notch team for years, thats the only reason he's posted good numbers...when the going gets tough, the tough get going...certain goalies elevate their team thru their play (Roy, Hasek, etc) others (like Turco) are elevated BY their team, don't confuse the two

Hmmm interesting... however a lot of people seem to like to define goalies based on whether it's the defensive system or the team, and they like to use save % to measure that... Marty Turco has posted season of .932 and .925 in winning the Roger Crozier Saving Grace award since it's introduction in the 99-00 season.... he's also the only goalie to win it twice.

Hahaha I don't know how much this last part has in terms of credit but Don Cherry seems to believe Turco is the http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/hnic...artest_go.html smartest goalie in the NHL. Before I open up another can of worms, it's just for a laugh haha.

[Zorro]

To answer the thread heading/question..

I would have to say I have faith in Turco, atleast until I trade him, LOL.. I personally think he improves with the return of Morrow and Richards..

[mister_mcgoo]

Hmmm interesting... however a lot of people seem to like to define goalies based on whether it's the defensive system or the team, and they like to use save % to measure that... Marty Turco has posted season of .932 and .925 in winning the Roger Crozier Saving Grace award since it's introduction in the 99-00 season.... he's also the only goalie to win it twice.

Hahaha I don't know how much this last part has in terms of credit but Don Cherry seems to believe Turco is the http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/hnic...artest_go.html smartest goalie in the NHL. Before I open up another can of worms, it's just for a laugh haha.

when you quote numbers out of context they're meaningless...chris osgood had S% of of .926 in the playoffs last season despite posting an abysmal .887 in the regular season, again its all about context and how well your team is playing in front of you and guys like this who wax and wane depending on their circumstances scare me, the worst thing you can see is inconsistency and poor play when your team is down in the dumps, you need a goalie who is the opposite, who gets stronger when the odds are against him...checkout Vokoun, dude has NEVER played on a good team yet he posts ridiculously high s% consistently in spite of it, to me he's worth 3 Marty Turcos faith-wise because I know exactly what I'm getting...and if FL ever improves or he gets traded to a contender, watch the **** out

the question of this thread was 'anyone have faith in Turco', not 'do you like him as a fantasy goalie on a strong defensive team', I have zero faith in Turco's ability to carry a team, but in the right circustances I agree he can be a good fantasy option

[NYR9394]

Marty Turco = serious business.

[GoalieGuild]

Didn't Turco posted that ridiculously low GAA (1.67 or something like that) which broke the modern-day record? I don't get how you can discredit the "Avery" factor and call him an Osgood clone?

Avery totally tore the lockerroom apart and nobody liked him. In Dallas, that doesn't fly. His antics absolutely had an impact on the team's play, thus making Turco less valuable as a result.

If Turco is an Osgood clone like you say, then you're actually kind of complimenting him. Osgood is a mentally tough goalie that can make saves and win games IN ANY SITUATION POSSIBLE. How could you possibly have more faith in a goalie than that? Osgood can win and HAS won no matter what kind of situation he's in. As an Islander, he tied Billy Smith's record for wins with 32 in a season, put them in the playoffs. In St. Louis, he won 30+ games again and put them in the playoffs as well. Sure he was bounced in the first round in both situations, but then again so was CHRIS MASON, and he's one of the biggest fantasy goalie sleepers of this upcoming season.

Turco is not just a mediocre goaltender. He's an elite goalie with a lack of focus, thus making him inconsistent. Didn't you read the Turco Turnaround? THE KID DOES WAY TOO MUCH WITH THE PUCK. His mind is going 943874972389749 miles an hour because he's BORED and wants to exert more energy. Anyone can see that.

His steady decline in save percentage and rise in goals against average over the last two years has NOTHING to do with his lack of skill or his inability to be a top-notch goaltender. ITS ALL IN HIS HEAD.

McGoo, don't take this the wrong way, I agree with a lot of what you say about Turco and how terribly inconsistent he is. But it's not for the reasons you think...it's not because of reasons that are going to consistently hound him.

Answer these questions for me, in this order.

Does Turco have good rebound control?

Does Turco have "big-save" ability?

Can Turco win hockey games single-handedly from time to time?

Is Turco proficent at penalty shots, breakaways and shootouts?

Is Turco a quick, agile, fast goalie? Does he have good reflexes?

Is Turco considered a good stickhandler?

You have to answer YES to each and every one of those.

Now answer these:

Is Turco considered a consistent goalie?

Is Turco considered a big goalie?

Does Turco always make good decisions with the puck?

Is Turco always there to bail out his team?

NOPE to all of them.

With a new goalie coach ... a new coaching staff ... a new front office ... the return of a healthy captain in Brenden Morrow and high scorer Brad Richards ... and with everything you see above, don't you think it's only fair to consider that Turco just might have learned his lesson????

I have been harping on the same bloody topic for Turco for two years ... STOP HANDLING THE PUCK SO MUCH AND FOCUS ON MAKING SAVES. Everything about Turco's turnaround stems from his focus. When it comes to skill, he only needs to hone, slightly refine and continue practicing hard. His work ethic has NEVER been questioned. He has endurance (See the sharks, canucks series).

Also I don't necessarily agree with whoever said that those who believe in a Turco Turnaround are only saying it because it's impossible for him to be even worse than last year. I actually kind of take offense to that because I have put a lot of energy into bringing this website the straight dope on goalie analysis. There is a reason I write Turco Turnaround, Turco Transition, and scream at the top of my writing lungs about him stickhandling so much. It's the analysis you NEED to hear but DON'T ever hear.

Bottom line - don't discredit Turco just because his past few seasons were sub-par. Please look a little bit deeper than the stats and look at what the source of his weakness truly is.

[Nieuwendyk]

This is gold. Great questions and amazing analysis!

[Chicleteur]

This is gold. Great questions and amazing analysis!

Definitely!

Thanks once again Justin for answering my question! So, would you consider putting Hiller in front of SMason??? OK, I hear you, I'll stop there!

And one last question, where would you put Rinne in the mix?