Mat Barzal

[Jouko-Pouko]

It is very hard to get a read on just how good Barzal is and will be long-term. He certainly looks unreal out there, and the early numbers are outstanding, but part of me still wants to be cautious about him. We have seen many rookies catch fire and then fall off. I'm not saying Barzal isn't the real deal, but similar to Laine, Nylander, Marner, and Ehlers this season, it is hard for young players to maintain consistent production. All four of the young players I mentioned scored over 60 pts last year, and they are currently on pace for under 60 this year. Barzal could be an exception, after all he is on pace for the most rookie points since Malkin, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if his production slows down considerably as the season goes on. And if Tavares isn't re-signed by the Islanders, I could see Barzal really struggle next year as the team's #1 center (and without Tavares on the PP).

Sophomore slump is a real thing and we see it happening all the time. It's not necessarily about the player himself but more about the league adjusting to playing against him. A lot of times, first-year players can surprise other teams who are not familiar with those players. Great players can make counter-adjustments but often times it takes up to a year before they get there, so you may not see the results until their third season. If a player doesn't start to show positive signs during his third season, then that's when you can start worrying about him a little bit.

[agentzero]

How does a player go from scoring 10 goals in 40 games as an overager in Junior, to scoring 16 in sensibly the same amount of games in the NHL? Either this guy is on roids or I don't know, because he looks dominant at the NHL level in a way that he never was in Junior.

I don't get it.

[lucafen4]

How does a player go from scoring 10 goals in 40 games as an overager in Junior, to scoring 16 in sensibly the same amount of games in the NHL? Either this guy is on roids or I don't know, because he looks dominant at the NHL level in a way that he never was in Junior.

I don't get it.

he drew everyone to him in junior, leaving teammates and the net wide open for tap ins... should look at his primary assist rate in Jr. --- Weight is likely pushing him to shoot more, underrated shot.

[agentzero]

he drew everyone to him in junior, leaving teammates and the net wide open for tap ins... should look at his primary assist rate in Jr. --- Weight is likely pushing him to shoot more, underrated shot.

I'm sure he did, but even the more pass-first, heavy assist guys of the past with the same calibre scored like 30-40 goals in Junior in their last seasons there.... I mean, compared to the NHL, Junior hockey is like timbits hockey. The way he's playing, he should have been scoring 3pts a game in Junior and should have had 30 pts in 10 games at the WJC.

This is generational talent-level NHL production for a guy who until last year did not look like a generational talent, or hasn't ever. Good player , yes, but this is PED-level stuff.

[hank mooney]

Yep, he must be on 'roids. Only logical conclusion. I mean, he was only Canada's best player last year in the World Junior's, and a first round draft pick...but he does look Ben Johnson good out there, and no-one predicted this kind of success so...it must be 'roids! As a Barzal owner, I just hope he never gets caught.

[lucafen4]

I'm sure he did, but even the more pass-first, heavy assist guys of the past with the same calibre scored like 30-40 goals in Junior in their last seasons there.... I mean, compared to the NHL, Junior hockey is like timbits hockey. The way he's playing, he should have been scoring 3pts a game in Junior and should have had 30 pts in 10 games at the WJC.

This is generational talent-level NHL production for a guy who until last year did not look like a generational talent, or hasn't ever. Good player , yes, but this is PED-level stuff.

when was the last time a star player in the NHL got busted for roids?

[rataylor22]

when was the last time a star player in the NHL got busted for roids?

That’s probably more indicative of NHL testing than usage. I’d assume those that do take PEDs aren’t taking things to get “jacked” (not that helpful) and are more centered around endurance improvements. Pretty crazy that so many NHLers competitive to other contact sports keep coming down with blood clot issues, definitely a coincidence.

[agentzero]

Yep, he must be on 'roids. Only logical conclusion. I mean, he was only Canada's best player last year in the World Junior's, and a first round draft pick...but he does look Ben Johnson good out there, and no-one predicted this kind of success so...it must be 'roids! As a Barzal owner, I just hope he never gets caught.

Yes, he does look Ben Johnson good.

He was Canada's best player, but by no means was it a dominant performance, against kids his age, not men. He didn't carry team Canada to Gold by himself or set the tournament on fire with like 15 goals.

First rounder or not, I just can't remember the last time a player had a decent but not dominant Junior career (we're not talking approaching records or breaking any here), an okay overager season (in which it is common for 19 and 20 year olds to post like 100+ points and never sniff the NHL) and is basically tied with Sidney Crosby in scoring.

Good player or good prospect or not, this is nuts.

[rataylor22]

Yes, he does look Ben Johnson good.

He was Canada's best player, but by no means was it a dominant performance, against kids his age, not men. He didn't carry team Canada to Gold by himself or set the tournament on fire with like 15 goals.

First rounder or not, I just can't remember the last time a player had a decent but not dominant Junior career (we're not talking approaching records or breaking any here), an okay overager season (in which it is common for 19 and 20 year olds to post like 100+ points and never sniff the NHL) and is basically tied with Sidney Crosby in scoring.

Good player or good prospect or not, this is nuts.

I should get some of these “makes you better at every aspect of hockey” PEDs. Turn myself into a 4th line grinder and make bank.

[StuntMan12]

How does a player go from scoring 10 goals in 40 games as an overager in Junior, to scoring 16 in sensibly the same amount of games in the NHL? Either this guy is on roids or I don't know, because he looks dominant at the NHL level in a way that he never was in Junior.

I don't get it.

Every player develops differently. To add to the 10 goals as a 19 year old in Junior, he did have a down year goal wise compared to the season before. With that being said, I never put too much emphasis into Junior stats. Yes, they tell a story, sometimes not the whole story. Are they feeding off of their teammates? What type of situation are they surrounded by. And with Junior hockey league players I like to find video of them and analyze it. How well do they skate? (do they skate like Herman Munster?) How is their shot? Are they creative? What team-mates do they have? Is their feet as quick as their hands? <- I was told that was one of the biggest things to look out for when evaluating a player (from a reliable hockey source). I also ask other more experienced poolies their general opinion on the player as well. Pretty impressive stuff by Barzal this season to say the least, but not so surprising considering how well he looked in pre-season. I just figured he would have his downs as well with his ups (hence why I steered clear of him in my hockey pools). So far it's been all ups lol. Unfortunately, I never really put as much emphasis into researching prospects as much as I should have. Was too focused on players in the NHL. Plus, there's just so many prospects to keep track of at times, so if I can't do the eye test, I'll just read about them on here or on Hf.

[butch]

*looks for herman munster on skates youtube video.

I still think barzal is in for some down time to go along with the highs because the tighter checking teams seem to neautralize him moreso than the teams he seems to catch by surprise .

[Fast Tony DeNiro]

Ryan Getzlaf was hardly a PPG player in the WHL and he's had an alright NHL career. Its rare, but sometimes the tools add up to more than the numbers show. Seattle was also a terrible team for half of Barzal's WHL career.

[agentzero]

Ryan Getzlaf was hardly a PPG player in the WHL and he's had an alright NHL career. Its rare, but sometimes the tools add up to more than the numbers show. Seattle was also a terrible team for half of Barzal's WHL career.

This is true, I am just surprised he's been this good this fast. Totally dominant.

[SeaDawg]

Since when is 79 pts in 41 WHL games not impressive?

If all we are talking about is the fact that he has slightly more goals in the NHL than in his last WHL season, I think the sample size is too small to draw conclusions about him being more of a goal-scoring threat in the NHL than he was in the WHL.

[agentzero]

Since when is 79 pts in 41 WHL games not impressive?

Since a disproportionately high number of 19 and 20 year-olds regularly accomplish the feat at that level due to their physical maturity as compared to their competition (which averages about 17.5 years of age).


I am not saying Barzal shouldn't be good at the NHL level, but we are talking about someone who in his rookie season is 7 pts from 2nd in league scoring (Art Ross territory) after never having totally dominated play at his level. He has never dominated play at any level, but in his first year, he is dominating the best league in Hockey. I don't know how anyone cannot help but be mystified by this. It's crazy. I am very happy for him, but it is bewildering.