Sens to ask Karlsson, other Sens for no-trade lists

[cheese_cake]

TheAthletic posted an interesting take on Hoffman's potential fit with the Oilers in the event of a possible trade. Looks like there might be talks between the Sens and Oilers:
https://theathletic.com/181914/2017/...or-the-oilers/

[rataylor22]

good Segway back to the contracts of booby ryan, panoof & Duchene. Ott only signed booby ryan's but he traded for the other two..

Another great reason for Karlsson to not take a discount. GMs say players need to take discounts to surround them with more talent, and then they do stupid shit. It sounds like I'm taking a shot at the Oilers, but I'm really taking a shot at ~most~ GMs. GMs with excess cap space normally make stupid decisions. Brad Treliving (who I would usually consider smart) signed Troy Brouwer and Michael Stone with excess cap space. Pierre Dorien/Bryan Murray gave/traded for stupid amounts of money. Chiarelli, Benning, Tallon, Bowman, etc etc. Star players honestly should do their GMs a favor and push for the max to prevent them from making dumb mistakes. Some GMs make a lot more than others, but shit, even "the god" Yzerman nickle and dimed Stamkos and Kucherov just to give way too much money to Callahan and Girardi. Star players can take hometown discounts for whatever reason you want to coin it (competiveness, team player, guilt, etc.) but it all boils down to naivety, because the history of the league shows that GMs don't know how to properly manage that cap space when it's given to them.

[The Comish]

Another great reason for Karlsson to not take a discount. GMs say players need to take discounts to surround them with more talent, and then they do stupid shit. It sounds like I'm taking a shot at the Oilers, but I'm really taking a shot at ~most~ GMs. GMs with excess cap space normally make stupid decisions. Brad Treliving (who I would usually consider smart) signed Troy Brouwer and Michael Stone with excess cap space. Pierre Dorien/Bryan Murray gave/traded for stupid amounts of money. Chiarelli, Benning, Tallon, Bowman, etc etc. Star players honestly should do their GMs a favor and push for the max to prevent them from making dumb mistakes. Some GMs make a lot more than others, but shit, even "the god" Yzerman nickle and dimed Stamkos and Kucherov just to give way too much money to Callahan and Girardi. Star players can take hometown discounts for whatever reason you want to coin it (competiveness, team player, guilt, etc.) but it all boils down to naivety, because the history of the league shows that GMs don't know how to properly manage that cap space when it's given to them.

Great explanation on your point of view. Seriously well done. I disagree that it boils down to naivety though. Sadly, GM's have to overpay for free agents. It's just a fact. Very few GM's (or fan bases) are willing to draft and develop and trades are more and more difficult to execute, so one way to try and improve their team is through free agent signings. Surely not all signings are as bad as some of the examples you cite. The bottom line for the elite players in this league is that they all want to win more than anything and if they seek out the max, then their GM has less money to "try" and improve the team. I can't disagree that many GM's often botch this part, but most GM's don't have the luxury of waiting to only make team friendly deals.

[Axeman33]

Another great reason for Karlsson to not take a discount. GMs say players need to take discounts to surround them with more talent, and then they do stupid shit. It sounds like I'm taking a shot at the Oilers, but I'm really taking a shot at ~most~ GMs. GMs with excess cap space normally make stupid decisions. Brad Treliving (who I would usually consider smart) signed Troy Brouwer and Michael Stone with excess cap space. Pierre Dorien/Bryan Murray gave/traded for stupid amounts of money. Chiarelli, Benning, Tallon, Bowman, etc etc. Star players honestly should do their GMs a favor and push for the max to prevent them from making dumb mistakes. Some GMs make a lot more than others, but shit, even "the god" Yzerman nickle and dimed Stamkos and Kucherov just to give way too much money to Callahan and Girardi. Star players can take hometown discounts for whatever reason you want to coin it (competiveness, team player, guilt, etc.) but it all boils down to naivety, because the history of the league shows that GMs don't know how to properly manage that cap space when it's given to them.

You're on a roll tonight. Once again, I am in complete agreement with you. +1 to this post Sir.

[2014olympicgold]

If i took a hometown discount, I'd want to have it written in my contract to somehow be apart of the decisions, like Lebron (not written in, but he has a ton of influence on his team).

I don't think Karlsson is coming back, and I'll even say whatever is traded for Karlsson would look like an absolute steal and Ottawa ends up getting 3-4guys, but only 1 becomes a regular NHLer and it's a bottom 6 forward/bottom pairing D-man.

[havanablast21]

You're on a roll tonight. Once again, I am in complete agreement with you. +1 to this post Sir.

THIS IS EEERY!

[Axeman33]

THIS IS EEERY!

I know right. LOL!

[rataylor22]

I think the discount debate depends on the team Karlsson ends up on. If he's still with Ottawa as his contract his nearing expiration, he absolutely should not and will not take a discount to sign there. They are a bubble team, at best, who overachieved last season but that Cinderella story is over.
If he's traded before his contract expires, or he hits free agency, I can definitely see him taking a slight discount for the right team, if they are a true contender. Some GMs take that extra money and spend it unwisely, true, but others win cups. Many would argue that Kane, Toews (yes, I realize they made first round exits after the extensions kicked in, but they still had excellent seasons and were considered contenders despite the playoff flops to the Blues and Preds) and Keith took discounts - based on salary to cap % - and, right or wrong, that team has been a cup winner and perennial contender for years. Many would argue that Crosby and Malkin took discounts too. Same result - perennial contender and back to back champion.
So if Karlsson finds himself in the right situation, I don't think it would necessarily be wrong for him to take a small discount if he believes it will help him achieve a championship ring. It's worked for others.

Keith is a bargain now, but that's because of the type of contract he signed, which isn't allowed anymore. I dunno if Kane and Toews ever took what was considered a "discount", Chicago just did a great job of drafting and developing and knowing who to keep and who not to keep. As for the Sid and Malkin thing...I mean, I would say between 2010-2015, they weren't really a "perennial contender", they were a good regular season team. The cap and their assets were terrible mismanaged for a long period of time. Obviously now you can't complain, but for a really long time it looked like they took discounts to watch their GM give out bad contracts and pay bad players. Even now, they've kind gotten lucky that their round 3 and later picks have turned out so well...Guentzel, Rust, Sheary, Kuhnhackl, Wilson have all made significant contributions in the last 2 years and none were drafted highly. That's pretty rare.

[Jouko-Pouko]

Another great reason for Karlsson to not take a discount. GMs say players need to take discounts to surround them with more talent, and then they do stupid shit. It sounds like I'm taking a shot at the Oilers, but I'm really taking a shot at ~most~ GMs. GMs with excess cap space normally make stupid decisions. Brad Treliving (who I would usually consider smart) signed Troy Brouwer and Michael Stone with excess cap space. Pierre Dorien/Bryan Murray gave/traded for stupid amounts of money. Chiarelli, Benning, Tallon, Bowman, etc etc. Star players honestly should do their GMs a favor and push for the max to prevent them from making dumb mistakes. Some GMs make a lot more than others, but shit, even "the god" Yzerman nickle and dimed Stamkos and Kucherov just to give way too much money to Callahan and Girardi. Star players can take hometown discounts for whatever reason you want to coin it (competiveness, team player, guilt, etc.) but it all boils down to naivety, because the history of the league shows that GMs don't know how to properly manage that cap space when it's given to them.

Excellent post!

[lucafen4]

Another great reason for Karlsson to not take a discount. GMs say players need to take discounts to surround them with more talent, and then they do stupid shit. It sounds like I'm taking a shot at the Oilers, but I'm really taking a shot at ~most~ GMs. GMs with excess cap space normally make stupid decisions. Brad Treliving (who I would usually consider smart) signed Troy Brouwer and Michael Stone with excess cap space. Pierre Dorien/Bryan Murray gave/traded for stupid amounts of money. Chiarelli, Benning, Tallon, Bowman, etc etc. Star players honestly should do their GMs a favor and push for the max to prevent them from making dumb mistakes. Some GMs make a lot more than others, but shit, even "the god" Yzerman nickle and dimed Stamkos and Kucherov just to give way too much money to Callahan and Girardi. Star players can take hometown discounts for whatever reason you want to coin it (competiveness, team player, guilt, etc.) but it all boils down to naivety, because the history of the league shows that GMs don't know how to properly manage that cap space when it's given to them.

Agreed. But then, we end up in lock outs because GM's/Owners blame the players for them throwing money at UFA's and creating bad contracts

[2014olympicgold]

Personally, I think guys like Karlsson should make 17 million. Maybe even 20 to 25. Guys like him are special and they are the players fans pay to see.
Nobody should be paying the Brouwers and Moulsons of the league 4 to 5 million per year.
Those guys should be paid pennies so that the elite guys receive the dollars that they're worth. That way, the discount conversations shouldn't even come up.
Unfortunately, that's just not how the system works.

It would be interesting to see this crazy shift in like stars get paid a TON. and then middle guys get paid little. So like a Karlsson gets paid 20mill, but a depth player makes 1mill. Just like massive range and no middle class paid player. Just like basketball. But a players would need to play 50 of the 60minutes for that to happen (same percentage as 40min/48min in basketball)