Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

  1. #1
    FFleming5's Avatar
    FFleming5 is online now
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    339
    Location
    Chicago
    Rep Power
    6

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    In 2013, our pool had 14 managers and it was decided that we would put into play a 3 goalie Own Maximum in order to drive better competition. Since then, we have reduced managers/teams to 10 however we still maintain the 3 goalie own maximum. What are your thoughts on this rule?

    Obviously one side is adamantly against changing the rule. While the other side is pro-change. We allow 84 waiver moves per year which accounts for about 4 a week Minus playoffs

    Reasoning for only 3 Goalies: Finding a good goalie with frequent starts in FA isn't really even available under todays rules. Only true starters available are Vancouver, Florida, Arizona. If a manager loses a goalie or 2 he will be guaranteed to have access to another starter on the wire... that goalie's backup etc. If people had an average of 3.25 goalies on roster and there were some injuries and a team had to have their entire season destroyed b/c they are forefeiting goalie categories because they cannot get enough starts we would feel bad. Having 3 goalies mimics NHL Rosters and we want to prevent hoarding of goalies. We have rules in place that enable teams to remain competitive should bad things happen on their roster. For example: when Quick went down last season having the ability to find a replacement was very important.

    Reasoning for no Goalie max: The league no longer has 14 teams that would require some form of manager protection. There are 31 teams in the league guaranteeing a manager has access to at least 2 regular goaltenders and 3 by average. Allowing for a 4th goaltender allows a manager to run a handcuff/tandem as a third goalie set and roster protection for a goalie that takes over temporarily (Loungo/Reimer; Markstrom/Nilsson; Hellbyuk/Mason etc (Johnson/Elliott last season). Allowing for more goalie ownership allows for the same drop/add - level of competition potential as skater categories... a manager will be able to have access to spot starters to go after individual weekly goalie stats (for instance saves). Reducing goalie ownership allows for numerous starters, tandems and all backups to not have ownership or fantasy value whatsoever (Following Tenders are available: Luongo/Reimer; Markstrom/Nilsson; Raanta; KinKaid; Anton Forsberg; Cam Ward; Neuvirth; Petr Mrazek; Steve Mason; Dell; Halak) - all goalies with at least 5-6 starts thus far. Lastly, the restriction prevents a manager to manage his team as he sees fit within a keeper league. For instance Jusse Saros and Grubbauer could not be owned as a speculative add really. There is no reason for this rule as managers could either grab a 4th goalie/prospect etc and give up skater stats or roll an extra goalie. There is already risk/reward built in and having a max devalues goalies overall within the league as there are always an option available.
    H2H - 10 keepers. 10 Managers - rosters = 25. 3 goalie max. Keepers in bold.
    Placing: 1st - Reg. Season win; 2nd - Playoff win; 3rd - Reg. Season 2nd; 4th - Playoff Runner up; 5th - Reg. Season 3rd

    Scoring Categories: G, A, P, +/-, PPG, PPA, SHP, GWG, SOG, FW, BLK, HIT, W, L, GAA, SV, SV%, SO

    C: S. Stamkos, R. Getzlaf - IR, ROR, Kopitar, M. Backlund, Christian Dvorak
    LW: A. Panarin, B. Schenn; Kreider, S. Aho, Perreault, Schmaltz
    RW: Niederreiter, Okposo, Lindholm, Silfverberg, Boeser, Craig Smith
    D: OEL, S. Weber, Trouba, Seabrook, Muzzin, Darnell Nurse, R. Ellis - IR
    G: ​B. Holtby, F. Andersen

  2. #2
    MZac's Avatar
    MZac is online now
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Posts
    1,752
    Rep Power
    22

    Dobber Sports Stud

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    Personally I don't think there should be a max but I'd just put it to a vote. If more than 5 want it changed then change it, if 5 or more want it to stay as is then keep it as is.
    Set roster weekly in H2H (Mon to Sun) - 16 Teams - start 6F, 3D, and 1G per week - Keep 2

    Points: 2 G / 2 A / 1 PPG / 1 PPA / 1 Hat Trick / 1 SHG / 1 SHA / 1 GWG - 3 Goalie Win / 2 Goalie Loss in SO or OT / 5 goalie SO

    Forwards:
    J. Eichel, S. Crosby, B. Schenn, N. MacKinnon, M. Zibanejad, N. Ehlers D. Stepan

    Defense:
    J. Klingberg, S. Gostisbehere, J. Carlson, C. Fowler

    Goalie:
    B. Bishop, C. Hellebuyck

    IR: R. Getzlaf

  3. #3
    Location
    Toronto ON
    Rep Power
    3

    Dobber Sports Sophomore

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    In a 10 team league there is no reason to have a cap on goalies, it can badly hurt rosters that are weak on offence and are rebuilding. I kept Darling this year fully with the intent of trading. I had 5 goalies to start the year after drafting Andersen and leveraged Darling into Anders Lee. Managers should be able to leverage goalie depth into help elsewhere. My current 4 goalies are a big reason why I'm in first in my league in my signature, after going through an extensive rebuild (more extensive than Id like to admit) I see no reason to handcuff Managers in this way unless your league has a ridiculous amount of minimum goalie starts, in which case that is the rule that should be changed.
    10 team, H2H, keep 10 + 1 player designated NA, Yahoo league, Daily changes.
    G, A, PPP, SOG, GWG, +-, SHP, PIM, BLK
    GS, W, L, SVPC, GAA, SHO
    C C C RW RW RW LW LW LW D D D D UTIL UTIL (no goalies) GOALIE GOALIE BENCH BENCH BENCH BENCH BENCH BENCH BENCH IR IR NA

    Forwards-Tavares, Mackinnon, Marner, Draisaitl, Tarasenko, Pastrnak, E Kane, Perron, W karlsson, Puljujarvi, Kuznetsov, Marleau Dadanov, Debrincat , Brassard, A Lee

    Dmen-Pietrangelo, OEL, Mcdonagh, Ekblad, Rielly

    Goalies- Murray, Vas, Quick, F Andersen

  4. #4
    FFleming5's Avatar
    FFleming5 is online now
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    339
    Location
    Chicago
    Rep Power
    6

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    Does it matter at all that when we drafted keeper players last year and increased keeper players this season that the 3 goalie Max was in place. Managers thus drafted in mind of the current rules... or are all things equal and there are plenty of current goalie assets on the wire - open to everyone enough to make it fair. Every manager now has at least 2 decent goalie options. Does removing the Max hurt anyone in particular unfairly?

  5. #5
    COLT.45's Avatar
    COLT.45 is online now
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    94
    Location
    Ottawa
    Rep Power
    0

    Dobber Sports Sophomore

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    vote for the change. I agree its unnecissary to have a goalie cap in a 10 team. I am not a fan of changing the rules midseason. I suggest next draft you implement.
    10 Teams - 24 player rosters - 14 Keepers
    Yahoo points league - 4C, 4LW, 4RW, 6D, 2G, 4BN ,2IR
    G (2), A (1), PPP (1), GWG (2), SHP (2), HITS (0.1), +- (0.5), PIM (0.1), W (3), L (-1), GA (-0.3), SV (0.1), SHO (5)

    C: Getz, Backstrom, ROR, Trochek,
    LW: Huberdeau, Guentzel, Hoffmen
    RW: Laine, Keller, Lindholm
    D: Letang, Hedman, Ghost, AP, Green
    G: Rinne, Gibson
    B: Couturier, Mantha, Bjorkstrand, Marchessault, Stastny, Markstrom, Lehner
    Projected keepers

    16 teams - 19 player rosters - 6 keepers
    Yahoo H2H - 2C, 2LW, 2RW, W, 4D, Util, 2G, 5BN IR,IR,IR+
    G,A,P,+-,PPP,SHP,GWG,SOG,BLK W,L,GAA,SV%,SHO
    Stamkos, Backstrom, Ovie, Burns, Allen, Quick

  6. #6
    stevegamer's Avatar
    stevegamer is online now
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,276
    Location
    Philadelphia area
    Rep Power
    23

    Dobber Sports Ace

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    There
    's a compormise option where you could go with 4-5 goalies, but that may skew the dynamic towards more goalie hoarding with a cap than there would be without one.
    10 team Head-to-head true dynasty. Roster 33, draft 2, cut down before season. Start 1 G, 1-2 backup G's, 6 D, 12 F arranged in 4 lines of 3. Only categories that matter are Goals, Assists, Save% with a shutout bonus. Having NHL teammates helps.

    G: Holtby
    Backup G: F Andersen
    D: Carlson, Niskanen, Orlov, Letang, Klingberg, Gostisbehere
    F1: Benn, Seguin, Pavelski
    F2: Wheeler, Schiefele, JT Miller
    F3: Voracek, Giroux, Couturier
    F4: Stamkos, Namestnikov,Tavares

    Bench:
    G: (none)
    D: Ekman-Larsson, Werenski, M Reilly
    F: MacKinnon, Bailey, Point, Killorn, Nyquist, Tatar, Guentzel, Bjorkstrand, Labanc, Tuch

    Reserve:
    Datsyuk

  7. #7
    LawMan's Avatar
    LawMan is online now
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    3,323
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Expert

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    I say let the market decide (no goalie max).

    First, given that its a 10-team league there really shouldn't be a massive shortage of goalies, the way you describe the waiver wire their is an abundance of goalies available currently. looking at your scoring I don't see a bid advantage to rostering more goalies, which means there isn't a large incentive to hoard goalies. Specifically of 6 goalie categories only two (if we call W/L a wash) encourage maximising goalie starts (Svs and SOs). If a guy wants to take a chance on holding Saros or Graubauer all year he is giving up an otherwise productive roster spot to do so. With no minors system you don't have a risk that guys will "stash" young goalies on their farm and make them unavailable.

    In short, I am only a fan of rules that restrict what a manager can do if the rule is clearly designed to prevent a clear "evil" that is both likely to occur and will cause an unfair competitive balance to the league. I just don't see the point in restricting the number of goalies one manager can hold, I see holding 4 goalies as more detrimental to your average roster and can see a few examples (double-handcuff or handcuff + 2 starters) where it would be legitimate.

    Your question on timing is a fair point. Given that the rule was maintained during the last keeper cycle I would likely propose that the rule stay in effect this season and be removed during the offseason for a few reasons:
    1. Consistency, changing rules in the middle of the season is not a good idea generally.
    2. Likely no harm to anyone. The odds any team will suddenly enter the draft with 4+ goalies is extremely small.
    3. Time to adjust. Gives managers a heads up and time to make moves in the offseason if they do somehow want to keep 4+ goalies.

    In the long-run I suspect that if you do drop the rule you will see very little impact to your league. Most guys aren't going to hold 4 goalies in a no-farm system keep-1o setup. If they do it will be short term situations where the move is legitimate (double-handcuff) and the handicap of being short a skater makes up for the value of your average 4th goaltender.
    12 team H-2-H 1 year league, daily roster changes, 3 goalie start minimum/week
    2xC, 2xRW, 2xLW, 4xD, 3xUtil, 2xG, 5 Bench
    G, A, P, +/-, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, Hits, W, SV%, GAA, SVs
    C: Eichel, Kopitar, Backlund, Toews
    LW:M. Pacioretty, A. Lee, J. Skinner, E. Kane, Galchenyuk, Foligno
    RW: Wheeler, Palmeiri, M. Granlund (MIN)(C/RW),
    D: Yandle, Gardner, Phaneuf, Trouba
    G:Talbot, Dubnyk, Mason

  8. #8
    kbro's Avatar
    kbro is online now
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,070
    Rep Power
    12

    Dobber Sports Padawan

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    Let the market decide. Either way is fine. All it does is influence how much goalies are worth. In keeper leagues where rule changes are voted on, typically they don't take effect until the next season, so people should have time to adjust accordingly if a change is made.
    12-team H2H (keep 6 candidates)
    skaters: G,A,P,+/-,PIM,PPP,GWG
    goalies: W,GAA,SV%,SO
    C(2): Crosby, Malkin, E.Staal
    W(4): Ovechkin, Voracek, Neal, Stone, Dadonov, Maroon, D.Brown
    D(4): E.Karlsson, Klingberg, Ekman-Larsson, Carlson
    G(2): Talbot, Murray, Lehner
    IR+: Kesler(C), Fowler(D), Burakovsky(W)

  9. #9
    FFleming5's Avatar
    FFleming5 is online now
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    339
    Location
    Chicago
    Rep Power
    6

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Re: Keeper League Rules Input/Advice (will rep)

    Also, we are expanding to 12 keepers after next year's draft (as 2 more players will be kept after NEXT season). I'm not sure if that matters whatsoever here. I believe it does not.

    Yes, all rule changes do only take effect after the year/prior to the next draft

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •