Tanking

[Axeman33]

It must suck to be in a league when you are trying to have fun and your weekly match up comes up against a team who just doesn't care and benches his players.

Yay, lots of fun there.

[SuperMario]

It must suck to be in a league when you are trying to have fun and your weekly match up comes up against a team who just doesn't care and benches his players.

Yay, lots of fun there.

Or worse - you're fighting for the last playoff spot and the guy you're up against draws that matchup.

[Axeman33]

Or worse - you're fighting for the last playoff spot and the guy you're up against draws that matchup.

Yep. It just puts a league right out of whack, especially a few weeks into the season.

[lucafen4]

I take full blame on these rule flaws, as they were written by myself, and it is the first dynasty league I am commishing. The idea was to keep the league stable in its beginning, also for that reason the managers committed to the league for the first 3 seasons.

As it turns out, they are quite literally turning to provide the opposite of stability. May this be a lesson for me and hopefully someone else too.

hey.. shit happens, you live, you learn. you change, adapt, grow. the best part of fantasy hockey is that while you're sorting out and fixing what's broken in this pool - feel free to nab a spot in another pool - get a full experience while this one repairs & learn a different commish style at the same time.

I would just change the settings in your pool that allows a team to bench everyone. the one I run, I have 4 bench slots - no one can sit a 5th player. that 5th player must be active. they can rotate and bench players to tank still but it's not as automatic.

[Rustyrug]

Why not put in a rule that the draft order is based on your the highest point producers on your team. Regardless if they are played or not. This won't stop teams trading away their top players but it is a price to pay to really tank.

Happens all the time in all leagues. Tanking is part of fantasy hockey.

[Godin]

It must suck to be in a league when you are trying to have fun and your weekly match up comes up against a team who just doesn't care and benches his players.

Yay, lots of fun there.

To set the record straight, I agree with this for head to head pools. I have never been involved in an H2H, only rotisserie type pools.

[STONE.]

To set the record straight, I agree with this for head to head pools. I have never been involved in an H2H, only rotisserie type pools.

Yup. This was what I was going to say.

My league is thriving and has been around quite some time--and tanking is a legit strategy. And it's actually enjoyable because you can actively make deals--nabbing injured guys for net gains. But everything changes when it's H2H -- then it sucks.

Although, to play devil's advocate on this guy's behalf, it's better that he's done it this early. If he waits until midseason, he impacts teams differently -- at least now, everyone gets free wins along the way. That's arguable more fair than pretending to compete for a couple months and then tanking down the homestretch when it might benefit some more than others.

[The Comish]

Hi everyone! Thank you all for your contribution.


First things first I?m the tanker! I'm not just a tanker. I'm the tanker (or wanker) that you want out of Stimperi's league. Second most important thing is that our league has entry fee and you can win money if you do well. If you tank you give up your chance to win. There is your penalty for tanking. Also, let?s not pretend that tanking is fun. Because we don?t have min games it is the most boring thing to do but is it fun to manage roster that isn?t winning day in and day out. This isn?t like boxing where you could lose every round and KO your opponent at the last round. Third most important thing could be that rules of our league states very clearly that tanking is allowed.


At this point, it is quite clear that I?m not winning. I?m also a bad manager but it isn?t important right now. 3rd place could have been possible to achieve but it wasn?t likely. What else there is to do than tank? Why should I come 5th or 6th out of 9 and be happy about it? My goal is to win, and it wasn?t happening this season. Next best thing is to give me biggest possible chance to win next year. If there is a right way to tank it might be as open about it as possible. I?ve done just that.


About timing. It might be too early (~86 % of the games are still to come) to tank but it also might be only (and the best) change I get. Teams that were below me at the standings had time to react to it. At this point they haven?t. I don?t know if they don?t want to tank or if they haven't noticed it. If they enjoy managing losing team day to day basis, why should I do so? I?ve shown my cards. It is their job to react to it. If they fail to do so, why I?m the bad guy?


About the future of our league. It is my best interest to keep this league alive. If this league folds my tanking will be for nothing. If this league folds it won?t be because my tanking. Most probable cause of death of our league will be lack of interest from some managers and I?m not one of them. Other likely reason could be that managers aren?t willing to rebuild (one way or another) their team when that time comes around.


And lastly about why this thread was started. It wasn?t about is it OK to tank or when it is OK to start tanking process. It was about commish and his role. From my point of view, it is bit unfair that commish tries to help person that is currently holds the last place. It is fine to announce that someone has started their project to be last but I?m not sure is it OK that league regulator starts to advice other managers how to deal with that. It would have been fine my me if somebody have asked what to do with this situation, but no-one said or asked anything. If someone asks something it is OK to answer but is it cool to be proactive like that? Please try to be as neutral as possible about this.


P.S. Hopefully I made my self clear enough. English is not my strong suit.

Welcome to the forums Leikkikalu! Tough first post, having to defend yourself! I'm not a big fan of tanking, HOWEVER, I am all for pushing the envelope on rules. There is no rule against tanking? Then there is nothing you are doing wrong. Honestly, I like your reasoning for tanking, even this early in the year.

For the league to prosper, that rule requiring unanimous approval for rules changes is what will kill this league. I've experienced this where 2 people held up a very common sense rule that 11 others supported. Majority vote is best, two-thirds would be next best.

The commish (not The Comish, lol) is not wrong when he says it hurts the league, which means he may have to take the bull by the horns and force changes AFTER this season is done, at least regarding tanking (and that unanimous vote thing).

I hope you guys can weather the storm and come out stronger next season!

[GSD]

There is a problem that we agreed that any rules changes in the first three years in the league must be unanimous.

I tried to establish a number of changes in the league last spring, min games and punishing for not meeting them etc. Of course the tankers vetoed them.

sounds like the American congress LOL. Nothing will ever change if the vote has to be unanimous. Allowing teams to tank is ridiculous. Kick out the tankers and set up a league the right way.

[Leikkikalu]

This is the most civilized internet argument that I’ve ever seen.

I’ve never been involved H2H hockey league and probably never will, but I will say that tanking on those leagues is wrong on so many levels.

I’m not necessarily pro tanking. If it is allowed I will tank if it gives me best possible change to win next season and years after that. As a manager it is my job to do what is best for my team. Sometimes it is tanking. If our league bans or make tanking pointless, I’ll be okay with that.

Only problem I see with disallowing tanking is that then managers with worst teams get better protection than managers with best teams. It is possible that best team (most talent) will lose to manager with less talent because he managed his team better, were luckier or both. This is more than acceptable. Most of us prefers our leagues that way. On the other hand, we want worst teams to be at bottom of the pack. Why they should get best odds to get 1^st draft pick if manager with better team wants to be last more than those managers with less talent on their team?

I’m not the best or most talented manager. I need best team and/or to be very lucky to win. If all of us have equal teams I will never win. Well never might be too strong word to use here. After all there is an element of luck involved.

[Axeman33]

This is the most civilized internet argument that I?ve ever seen.

I?ve never been involved H2H hockey league and probably never will, but I will say that tanking on those leagues is wrong on so many levels.

I?m not necessarily pro tanking. If it is allowed I will tank if it gives me best possible change to win next season and years after that. As a manager it is my job to do what is best for my team. Sometimes it is tanking. If our league bans or make tanking pointless, I?ll be okay with that.

Only problem I see with disallowing tanking is that then managers with worst teams get better protection than managers with best teams. It is possible that best team (most talent) will lose to manager with less talent because he managed his team better, were luckier or both. This is more than acceptable. Most of us prefers our leagues that way. On the other hand, we want worst teams to be at bottom of the pack. Why they should get best odds to get 1^st draft pick if manager with better team wants to be last more than those managers with less talent on their team?

I?m not the best or most talented manager. I need best team and/or to be very lucky to win. If all of us have equal teams I will never win. Well never might be too strong word to use here. After all there is an element of luck involved.

Welcome to the forums.

All I can say is if your league allows it to happen, then have at it. In a money league, I can see your reasoning for doing it. I'd just have a hard time doing it personally.

The league in my signature is one of the only money leagues I am in, and when I took over the team, it was in dead last place. I quickly turned it into a money making team by smart drafting and timely waiver wire pickups. It can be done if you are sharp but it can also be a slow (and expensive) process if you aren't on the ball when it comes time to do your drafting.

Good luck.

[lucafen4]

uncivilized discussions are left for American politics and CNN Comment sections

[STONE.]

uncivilized discussions are left for American politics and CNN Comment sections

Hmmm... guess you haven't been to HFBoards?

[The Comish]

uncivilized discussions are left for American politics and CNN Comment sections

Haha, shut upa your mouth! (said in voice of Super Mario!)

[SuperMario]

Haha, shut upa your mouth! (said in voice of Super Mario!)

Hey you leave me out of this... :P