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Thread: Fantrax and advanced stats

  1. #1
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    Default Fantrax and advanced stats

    This is interesting. I just noticed today that Fantrax allows us to use advanced stats in our league scoring categories. They allow the use of:

    Corsi, Fenwick, Zone Starts among other things

    Is this new?
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    We considered adding Corsi or Fenwick to one of the leagues I'm in but in the end realized that they're not very good for fantasy hockey purposes because they're not that different from +/- in that it's mostly a team stat. For that reason, we decided to replace +/- with Takeaways instead because although that's not perfect either, at least it's an individual stat.

    For fantasy hockey purposes, I think SOG is better than Corsi or Fenwick regardless of how "boring" it may seem. These so called advanced stats are good when looking at teams but not so good for individual players because you'd have to consider things like O-Zone% and quality of competition, and also you'd have to compare player's Corsi/Fenwick against other players from the same team to get rid of style of play / strength of team bias.

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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobbernomics View Post
    This is interesting. I just noticed today that Fantrax allows us to use advanced stats in our league scoring categories. They allow the use of:

    Corsi, Fenwick, Zone Starts among other things

    Is this new?
    Gross.
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Let the debate begin.....lol.

    Personally, I'd be open to some of these stats making inroads into fantasy scoring. Things like ASL, weighted primary assists, team shooting %.
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    If I am not mistaken, they were on fantrax last season for use as well but rarely discussed.

    These stats can't be any worse for fantasy than +/- and shorthanded points.

    I love PIMs in fantasy hockey because it opens up relevance for a lot of normally useless players but I have always wondered why it is a positive thing for your fantasy team when it's such a negative thing in real life. No one wants to be short handed in the real NHL yet we reward it as a "positive" stat in fantasy. Weird.
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    The Great One

    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    I can just imagine being in the finals of a H2H matchup and watching a game and cheering for some player's relative Corsi, or some other ridiculous statistic...

    You could watch the whole game without knowing how your player did...

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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    I know some people have tried to create hockey pools for player value that more reflects real NHL value.
    I think people who enjoy stat analysis aren't wow-ed by competing for stat analysis, they simply like to analyze the numbers, not compete.
    Fantasy hockey should be fun - so as mentioned above - you want to be able to watch a hockey game and KNOW when your player has tallied a stat.

    For me, I've always liked the inclusion of +/-... because even though it IS team specific, some two-way players (Datsyuk, Bergeron, etc.) don't get fully rewarded for their defensive contributions in fantasy.
    The only way you can pick up their defensive prowess is to capture the fact that teams do NOT score/register shots with them on the ice.
    And this is only captured by goal (or shot) differential... hence +/- and Corsi.
    IMO: Corsi > Fenwick > +/-... in my opinion, for actual on-ice value reflection.

    One of my keepers counts +/- at a weight of 0.5per.
    Another keeper of mine that is H2H scrapped +/- a few years ago, which I dislike (because, as many know, I love +/-... though that one is Yahoo! run).

    For me, Corsi is a better H2H cat over +/-.
    But one does need a good league of intelligent managers that don't need to be educated about what it means.


    I'm not a big fan of ZoneStarts.
    For me, that's the same thing as TOI.
    It simply rewards the best player (even on a crappy team) for being the best player on their (possibly crappy) team.
    Is the Wings top D-men better than CGY's 2nd pairing D-men just because they log more TOI or ZoneStarts?... nah, so not a great stat for inclusion, IMO.
    Zone Starts is also subjective to "coaching decisions" - so not necessarily reflective of player production, moreso a reflection of "coach's regard for player use", meh.

    Corsi though... I like that.

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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    I know some people have tried to create hockey pools for player value that more reflects real NHL value.
    I think people who enjoy stat analysis aren't wow-ed by competing for stat analysis, they simply like to analyze the numbers, not compete.
    Fantasy hockey should be fun - so as mentioned above - you want to be able to watch a hockey game and KNOW when your player has tallied a stat.

    For me, I've always liked the inclusion of +/-... because even though it IS team specific, some two-way players (Datsyuk, Bergeron, etc.) don't get fully rewarded for their defensive contributions in fantasy.
    The only way you can pick up their defensive prowess is to capture the fact that teams do NOT score/register shots with them on the ice.
    And this is only captured by goal (or shot) differential... hence +/- and Corsi.
    IMO: Corsi > Fenwick > +/-... in my opinion, for actual on-ice value reflection.

    One of my keepers counts +/- at a weight of 0.5per.
    Another keeper of mine that is H2H scrapped +/- a few years ago, which I dislike (because, as many know, I love +/-... though that one is Yahoo! run).

    For me, Corsi is a better H2H cat over +/-.
    But one does need a good league of intelligent managers that don't need to be educated about what it means.


    I'm not a big fan of ZoneStarts.
    For me, that's the same thing as TOI.
    It simply rewards the best player (even on a crappy team) for being the best player on their (possibly crappy) team.
    Is the Wings top D-men better than CGY's 2nd pairing D-men just because they log more TOI or ZoneStarts?... nah, so not a great stat for inclusion, IMO.
    Zone Starts is also subjective to "coaching decisions" - so not necessarily reflective of player production, moreso a reflection of "coach's regard for player use", meh.

    Corsi though... I like that.
    I agree with you. ZoneStarts or Relative Stats are a bit too much for anything fantasy. But Corsi is actually pretty easy to tallied. I mean if you watch a game and your player is being hemmed in his zone you know his Corsi Differential is about to take a hit. It's not as blatant as +/- and it's still a team relative stat IMO but it's much less dependant on goaltending than +/- .

    One of my H2H Keeper league just switched from +/- to Corsi this summer, and I'm curious to see how it will affect teams.
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    I can just imagine being in the finals of a H2H matchup and watching a game and cheering for some player's relative Corsi, or some other ridiculous statistic...

    You could watch the whole game without knowing how your player did...
    Exactly!
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    If anything, it would make you pay more attention and learn more about advanced stats, should your league switch to it.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by RizzeeDizzee View Post
    Let the debate begin.....lol.

    Personally, I'd be open to some of these stats making inroads into fantasy scoring. Things like ASL, weighted primary assists, team shooting %.
    I'd be very curious though to see how using something like primary assists would affect defenceman points. Would it change things drastically? Haven't looked @ any figures but I'd interested to know.

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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    If anything, it would make you pay more attention and learn more about advanced stats, should your league switch to it.
    Nah, not the guys in my leagues. Once they learn more about advanced stats, the more they'll realize it's all mumbo jumbo and tune out.

    If you can't look at the box score and see how your players did, it's a crap stat. That said, I also think plus/minus and penalty minutes are crap stats, but hockey has so few decent stats for roto leagues. I think we're reaching for categories. I do like penalties drawn as a category.
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by The Comish View Post
    Nah, not the guys in my leagues. Once they learn more about advanced stats, the more they'll realize it's all mumbo jumbo and tune out.

    If you can't look at the box score and see how your players did, it's a crap stat. That said, I also think plus/minus and penalty minutes are crap stats, but hockey has so few decent stats for roto leagues. I think we're reaching for categories. I do like penalties drawn as a category.
    I'd like to see penalties drawn as a category being used as well.
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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I'd like to see penalties drawn as a category being used as well.
    lol, I just realized that I criticized my own pick for a stat I like. Where in the box scores do you read "penalties drawn"!? I'm such a hypocrite!
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    "Don't spray that urine on my sons window. If you want a dollar for doing nothing, walk to Canada." - Malory Archer

    “Anyone who thinks the pen is mightier than the sword has not been stabbed with both.” - Lemony Snicket

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    Default Re: Fantrax and advanced stats

    Quote Originally Posted by The Comish View Post
    lol, I just realized that I criticized my own pick for a stat I like. Where in the box scores do you read "penalties drawn"!? I'm such a hypocrite!
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