Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 102

Thread: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

  1. #46
    Moses's Avatar
    Moses is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,242
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Genius

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Well yea. I mean. That's negotiating. You know. Paying players their value for what they provide and not overpaying them is pretty important in a cap system. And you always want to pay good players as opposed to bad players, but yes. That's kind've how contract negotiating works, and its pretty irrelevant if it causes tension within the fanbase.
    Ugh.... I don't know. I just don't. I see exactly where you are coming from and hear what you are saying. I agree that every GM wants to get his players under contract for as team friendly a deal as possible. He should. That is his job.

    My thoughts keep drifting to the risk/reward camp. What Pandora's Box opens if GMPC and Draisaitl play a game of contract chicken.

    In a vacuum Draisaitl probably isn't worth $8.5M. But if you frame the question this way: "If O'Rielly and Johanson and Kuznetsov* are getting $8M then what is Draisaitl worth to the Oilers (specifically the Oilers)?"

    I have a hard time arguing that locking up your star C to a deal that keeps around for his entire 20's [specifically in the Oilers current situation] isn't worth over paying for. "Just pay him already". It is not like the Oilers have another C waiting in the wings. It is not like the Oilers *should* have another top draft pick any time soon to get another franchise-type centre. Nor do the Oilers have extra pieces on the back-end to swap for a top end C. With the McDavid window open and a new building to fill, the $1M in cap space spent translates into many more million of dollars in actual revenue/profit for the team.

    * - OK, $7.8M
    - I said... "God damn this tablet is heavy!"

  2. #47
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Grand Master

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Sure. Just then you add in that realistically I think he should be paid more like Gaudreau, Monahan, Mackinnon, et al. And then he is overpaid by like 1.5-2 mil. Which is the difference between like Ryan Strome as your 3C or Anton Lander. With other conparables, sure Draisatl doesn't look out of line, other than the fact that O'Reilly and Johansen and Kuznetsov are definitely very good centers and have already proved as much. Draisaitl is definitely a very good winger with McDavid and maybe a very good center without him.

  3. #48
    Ingolo's Avatar
    Ingolo is offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,499
    Location
    Hamilton, ON
    Rep Power
    23

    Dobber Sports Ace

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    I feel like Moses has the most realistic take here. It's absolutely a case of real world vs. fantasy, but on a contract level. Clearly Draisaitl's camp is looking for the best deal for their client, and Chiarelli is looking for the best deal for the team on the ice and has the majority of the say on how to do that. At the end of the day though, the business of the Edmonton Oilers is to make money. If they need to overpay for a player to ice a team that stands to make them more money over the next several years, even if it means losing a few more games, that's what they'll pressure Chiarelli into doing. It's not just about wins and losses (outside of making the playoffs), it's about selling jerseys, season's tickets, and beers at the game. Darryl Katz likes making money, and he's really good at it. I honestly think a lot of it comes down to risk/reward from the business perspective.
    9 Team Dynasty Salary Cap (AAV)
    G 1.5, A 1, PPP 1, SHP 1, +/- 0.5, MmP 0.25/Min, HIT 0.1, GWG 3, BLK 0.25 Gordie Howe Hattricks 10 (Skaters)
    W, L, GA, SHO, SV (Goal)
    Start 12 F 6 D 2 G
    11 Player Bench (Max 2 Bench G)
    15 Player Farm Team

    F: Kucherov, Teravainen, Galchenyuk, Johansen, W Nylander, W Karlsson, Gourde, Vrana, Athanasiou, Vatrano, Buchnevich, Haula, Stastny, Puljujarvi, Eberle, Little, Kovalchuk, Kravtsov, Terry, Bertuzzi, Bratt, Kunin, Hintz, Heinen, Kahun, Sikura, Chytil, Iafallo
    D: E Karlsson, Montour, Gardiner, Girard, Faulk, Martinez, Fox, Cernak, Weegar, Pionk, Pilut, Bayreuther
    G: Gibson, Bishop, Raanta, Allen, Talbot, Blackwood, Delia, Husso

  4. #49
    Location
    Japan
    Rep Power
    35

    Dobber Sports Stud

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    The kid had 1 superior season

    Its a lot of money for 1 70+ point season

    Then again its not chiarelli's money

    10 dollar hot dogs, 150 dollar uniforms and TV revenue will pay that salary

    I have an oilers 3rd jersey. Anyone interested ? j/k
    Consider Sim Hockey because guys who play shutdown minutes, deflect shots and clear creases build championships. Yet in fantasy they litter the unwanted UFA lists.

  5. #50
    Location
    Beaumont, AB
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Icon

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    He's always centered his own line lol. Again, see link.
    The numbers I see show that Malkin played with Crosby for about 40% of his even strength time in his 2nd NHL season and over 40% of the time in his 3rd season.

    http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/f...es=2007-2008:R
    http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/f...es=2008-2009:R

    That's not exactly, "He's always centered his own line."

  6. #51
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Wizard

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    The Scheifele contract is looking better and better every day. $6.125M? Yes please. By the way, Scheifele signed his contract after scoring 61 points in 71 games which equals to 0.86 PPG. Draisaitl had 0.94. I don't think that difference is worth $2.375M, especially considering how little the salary cap went up this year.

    It's not really fair to compare Draisaitl to guys like Johansen and Kuznetsov. Draisaitl was coming off his ELC while Johansen was just one year removed from hitting UFA status. Even Kuznetsov was just 2 years from UFA status. They both had bridge contracts after their ELC, so it makes sense that their 3rd contract is a bit higher. That wasn't the case with Draisaitl. That's just not a very good contract for the Oilers. But it's probably not going to be a horrible contract either. They just overpaid by about $1-2M.

    But thanks to this contract, I was able to acquire Draisaitl very cheaply in a salary cap league. In fantasy hockey leagues, I think he's worth the risk if you can get him cheaply like I did.

  7. #52
    Location
    Flames!
    Rep Power
    38

    Dobber Sports Pro

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Good points, JP. This deal is yet another example of why the Oilers are going to be in cap hell very soon. Chiarelli is praying they win a cup before he's run out of town. I don't think they're nearly as close to winning it all as many Oiler fans do.

  8. #53
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Grand Master

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    The numbers I see show that Malkin played with Crosby for about 40% of his even strength time in his 2nd NHL season and over 40% of the time in his 3rd season.

    http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/f...es=2007-2008:R
    http://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/f...es=2008-2009:R

    That's not exactly, "He's always centered his own line."
    Obviously PP minutes don't count. You can only count 5v5 minutes played together. AGAIN, for the THIRD time, see link https://oilersnation.com/2017/07/11/...by-and-malkin/

    Even very early in their careers, Evgeni Malkin still only played a maximum of 30.5% of his 5v5 time with Crosby (Malkin’s rookie year is the only in his career that predates the ability to track this information). The last six years in particular, the duo of Malkin and Crosby has not been a duo at all. And that’s really the dream for Oiler fans with Draisaitl and McDavid.

    Crosby was adding 2.68 Points per 60 minutes and a 58.5% Goals For share and Malkin was adding 2.82 Points per 60 minutes and a 61.9% Goals For share, and they were doing it apart from each other. That’s almost 30 minutes a night of 5v5 domination between the two of them and we haven’t even factored in their Power Play production. That’s a recipe for winning a lot of games in the NHL.

    If Leon Draisaitl is McDavid’s wingman for the foreseeable future, then they are set up for great success. They were already the top duo in the NHL last season. But if the team wants Draisaitl to operate the same way Malkin does, then the Oilers are really going to need to change how much time they spend together.

    Last year Draisaitl played 670:45 with Connor McDavid, or 57.3% of his 5v5 minutes. It’s almost double what Malkin has spent with Crosby in any of the seasons we have this kind of record for. If Edmonton’s plan is to have two distinct lines championed by McDavid and Draisaitl, then next season is going to be a shock to the system for young Leon.

    Together with McDavid, Draisaitl produced 2.24 Points per 60 minutes and they had a Goals For share of 59.8% last season. Away from McDavid, the big German produced just 1.80 Points per 60 and had a Goals For share of 44.2%. He was certainly better on McDavid’s wing than he was on his own line.
    Since you don't want to click the link and read, I've brought the poignantly relevant data into the thread for you.

  9. #54
    Mr. Guru's Avatar
    Mr. Guru is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,529
    Location
    Toronto
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    What are you guys even arguing about?

    You say Tarasenko is the max you would offer.

    And you wouldn't lock in Draisaitl for $1 extra million? You'd let the one million be the deciding factor?

  10. #55
    CascadeFilly's Avatar
    CascadeFilly is offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,193
    Location
    Winnipeg!
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Genius

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    I agree with JP that Scheifele's contract is looking insanely good these days, but I think this Draisaitl contract is still solid. I really, really like Draisaitl, and I think this deal will look very good in a couple of years. He's tremendously talented, and he's got a competitive streak that is highly desirable in top end players.

  11. #56
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Grand Master

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    What are you guys even arguing about?

    You say Tarasenko is the max you would offer.

    And you wouldn't lock in Draisaitl for $1 extra million? You'd let the one million be the deciding factor?
    What exactly are Draisaitl's options? He can't go play anywhere else. Also max implies, you know, max. Yes I would let Draisaitl sit out from playing hockey until he felt like taking 1.5 to 2 million less per season.

    You know, like good, strong, proper negotiating general managers do.

  12. #57
    Mr. Guru's Avatar
    Mr. Guru is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,529
    Location
    Toronto
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    This contract isn't great that's for sure.

    But it's nice to have your #1 and #2 center locked in for 8 years. Even if it does cost you a couple million more than you wanted.

  13. #58
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Wizard

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    This contract isn't great that's for sure.

    But it's nice to have your #1 and #2 center locked in for 8 years. Even if it does cost you a couple million more than you wanted.
    If he didn't sign long-term for $7M, I would have signed him to a bridge deal. As Moses informed us, Draisaitl is still 5 years away from UFA status, so I probably would have signed him for 2-4 years at a much lower rate. It's amazing how low you can get the cap hit if you use the bridge contract - just look at Trouba's $3M AAV. He probably wanted twice that much on a long-term deal.

  14. #59
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Grand Master

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    If he didn't sign long-term for $7M, I would have signed him to a bridge deal. As Moses informed us, Draisaitl is still 5 years away from UFA status, so I probably would have signed him for 2-4 years at a much lower rate. It's amazing how low you can get the cap hit if you use the bridge contract - just look at Trouba's $3M AAV. He probably wanted twice that much on a long-term deal.
    Also this. It's usually good to make your players earn their $8.5 million per season, which Draisaitl most certainly has not. Although I guess handing players all the money before they've earned it is typically the Edmonton model.

  15. #60
    Mr. Guru's Avatar
    Mr. Guru is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9,529
    Location
    Toronto
    Rep Power
    50

    The Great One

    Default Re: [RE-SIGNING] Draisaitl in EDM

    Bridge deal. I dunno.

    IMO If you think he's a star you sign him to this deal as fast as you can.

    Could cost you a lot more down the road with a bridge deal. Like a Subban situation.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •