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Thread: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumname View Post
    If people on both sides can't accept that "better" is subjective, then there is no point in even having these conversations.
    Agreed.

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loch View Post
    Sometime in October I turned to my brother and said: You know, whichever party has the nerve to turf their own candidate and put in a less hated replacement is going to win this in a landslide.

    I stand by that assessment.
    Yeap

    I said and even posted in a couple places that any replacement level candidate would have won that election in a walk.
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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    I would argue that at this point Daydream Nation's use of "better" is somewhat 'objective'. A "better" president, for instance, likely helps the economy, ensures the best healthcare for the country, inspires respect and loyalty from other nations, exhausts all other resources before starting wars that may kill thousands or even millions (North Korea) of people, is a moderating voice in periods of upheaval and upset in the country, does everything he can to protect the environment for future generations, and ultimately, hopefully, is a shining example of character, humility and humanity. That is just off the top of my head, but I think all would agree to most of those criteria.

    Unfortunately, the only above criteria where Trump is holding his head above water is the economy. Which takes years to play out and he is still riding Obama's positive wave. I am not optimistic there either.

    I again agree with Daydream Nation that Trump showed anybody who was looking his true colors well before the election.

    But I ramble

    In conclusion, I think that at this point we can 'objectively' determine anybody would have made a 'better' President than Trump. Further, the evidence was plain for anybody to see.
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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonko View Post
    A "better" president, for instance, likely helps the economy, ensures the best healthcare for the country, inspires respect and loyalty from other nations, exhausts all other resources before starting wars that may kill thousands or even millions (North Korea) of people, is a moderating voice in periods of upheaval and upset in the country, does everything he can to protect the environment for future generations, and ultimately, hopefully, is a shining example of character, humility and humanity
    This is YOUR definition of a good president. It is SUBJECTIVE. These are simply the traits YOU believe to make a good president. Your agenda isn't the only one.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonko View Post
    In conclusion, I think that at this point we can 'objectively' assume anybody would have made a 'better' President than Trump. Further, the evidence was plain for anybody to see.
    You're welcome to assume anything you like, but that doesn't make it so. This assumption is yours, and while it's a popular one it's still very much subjective. There are plenty of people out there who think he's doing a bang-up job.

    A big problem in all of this is people mistaking their opinions for facts.

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by CascadeFilly View Post
    Thank you. It was either Trump, with all his arrogance, inexperience, etc. or Hillary, who is profoundly corrupt, and has been for decades. There wasn't a good choice, and how dare anyone insinuate (or flat out state) that people who didn't vote Hillary are idiots. Give me a break.
    Even pre-election and pre-Russia, Trump was profoundly more corrupt than Hillary was. There was just a large disconnect between what acts of corruption were actually important and what acts of corruption people thought were important.

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by forumname View Post
    This is YOUR definition of a good president. It is SUBJECTIVE. These are simply the traits YOU believe to make a good president. Your agenda isn't the only one.



    You're welcome to assume anything you like, but that doesn't make it so. This assumption is yours, and while it's a popular one it's still very much subjective. There are plenty of people out there who think he's doing a bang-up job.

    A big problem in all of this is people mistaking their opinions for facts.
    OK.

    I honestly thought my basic criteria would be generally universal. Out of curiosity what traits do you look for in a President?
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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonko View Post
    OK.

    I honestly thought my basic criteria would be generally universal. Out of curiosity what traits do you look for in a President?
    My values seem to be similarly aligned with yours, but there are certainly other traits that some people would prefer.

    For example, not all people think healthcare is something that should be equally available to all. There are plenty of hardcore capitalists who think everything should be earned and that socialism is a 4 letter word. If you want healthcare for your family you should work hard and get yourself into a position where you're able to pay for it.

    Plenty of people put the financial prosperity of the country ahead of any environmental concerns.

    Plenty of people believe killing is only bad when it's the good guys getting killed. Nothing wrong with killing the bad guys (which is obviously never us).

    I agree that the ability to gain the respect of other nations is probably something most people want from a president, but there are many ways to achieve that respect, and I'm sure there are plenty of Americans out there who feel confidently that Trump is doing just that.

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Trump is con man. Nothing more. Nothing less. Always has been Shame on the GOP and Dems for allowing this to happen. Low voter turnout too...

    Reap what ya sew.
    @SmittysRant

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Trump was profoundly more corrupt than Hillary was.
    Oh, I beg to differ.

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by CascadeFilly View Post
    Oh, I beg to differ.
    Corrupt. Defined as: Having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.

    If that doesn't come with a picture of Trump beside it in the dictionary I will eat my shorts
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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bomm Bastic View Post
    Trump is con man. Nothing more. Nothing less. Always has been Shame on the GOP and Dems for allowing this to happen. Low voter turnout too...

    Reap what ya sew.
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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by CascadeFilly View Post
    Oh, I beg to differ.
    Do you know what Mueller is really going after? Trump's money laundering scheme with Putin/Russians. How do you think he's stayed afloat all these years? Differ all you want, but you're wrong. Listen, I voted for Hillary ONLY because Trump scared me. He weakens the US. But I'm no Hillary suck-up. The Dems are lazy. But the GOP is a fractured party.

    Eight years they grew lazy in getting by with nixing everything Obama did. That worked to revive their base support. But now they actually have to govern a nation and they don't know how.
    @SmittysRant

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bomm Bastic View Post
    Differ all you want, but you're wrong.
    Yeah, that seems to be how this thread goes. I guess I'm wrong, then. Enjoy patting yourselves on the back for how right you all are.

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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonko View Post
    I would argue that at this point Daydream Nation's use of "better" is somewhat 'objective'. A "better" president, for instance, likely helps the economy, ensures the best healthcare for the country, inspires respect and loyalty from other nations, exhausts all other resources before starting wars that may kill thousands or even millions (North Korea) of people, is a moderating voice in periods of upheaval and upset in the country, does everything he can to protect the environment for future generations, and ultimately, hopefully, is a shining example of character, humility and humanity. That is just off the top of my head, but I think all would agree to most of those criteria.
    No president or world leader has ever met this criteria for all his people, thats why its always subjective.
    I see your point, but while we're on the topic, if you think Hillary was that saint you're describing...well im sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Even pre-election and pre-Russia, Trump was profoundly more corrupt than Hillary was. There was just a large disconnect between what acts of corruption were actually important and what acts of corruption people thought were important.
    I dont doubt that Trump is mightily corrupt, but there is mountains of evidence pointing out the depths of Hillary's corruption while working at the state department, its indisputable, saying 1 is worse then the other is like saying the giant douche is better then the turd sandwich.


    I thought this thread would go ugly but im havin fun. Im with people like Joe Rogan and Dan Carlin when they say we need to get rid of the president, make it 2 jobs like a lot of Europeans do. A figure head President, who is charming and persuasive, and a behind the scenes Prime Minister who gets things done. Tho imagine Trump as Pres, Hillary as PM....im not a doomsday guy but that may have been the apocalypse.
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    Default Re: Trump's sad statement on Monday.

    How the (subjectively speaking) most powerful nation could let their leadership come down to Hillary and/or The Donald is laughable ... IMO of course. Looks good on them. Unfortunately it threatens the rest of the world.

    That's all I have to say on the matter.

    I was NOT a Trudeau fan during THE PAST federal election. Now? I'm couldn't be more proud to be A Canadian and even more so with our leader.

    Hey... pass the joint. It's all good here north of the Can/Am border.

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