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Thread: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

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    Default Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    How would you value Ovechkin today in a cap league where only pts counts.

    25 team count 8F 4D 1G with 75M cap space.

    Would you trade AO for Klingberg Straight up ?

    I'm leaning towards yes given the fact that Klingberg has one of the best contract.

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    he's a 70 point scorer now and Klingberg is nowhere near enough. Cap or no cap.
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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    It always depends on your current team and how your defense currently look vs your group or forwards. Also who will be available to replace Ovechkin from a draft or free agents.

    But without that info, in general, I think it's an offer I would jump on. Kilngberg contract is as good as he can gets for a top 5 D in the league and in a 25 teams I guess it's hard to find a top D like that. Given the age and the salary, Ovechkin is now a top 25 player, not top 5 as he used to be (points only). It's easier to find a 60-65 pts forward then a 55-60 defenseman.

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Well...
    This one I can speak on because its the simple model I use for cap league discussion.

    1. The NHL pays defensemen to... play defense (mostly). Knowing this, the best dollars spend in "points only" cap leagues will be on forwards.
    2. So, you stock your 4D positions with $1m - $2m Dmen that might get you 10-20pts. That's still 10pts per $1m. That's your benchmark.
    3. You also know that the best "value" in these cap leagues is filling out your last 2-3 F spots with $1m forwards (rookies or AHL players getting a shot on top line wing). If you get these guys for $1m and they give you 30pts... that's 30pts/$1m... amazing, won't get any better than that for value.
    4. Then you fill in your remainiing spots 5-6F and 1G with your remaining cap dollars.


    Here's how I'd roster a team:
    F1 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $10m - 80pts (note that this is actually LESS than 10pts per $1m)
    F2 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $8m - 70pts (ditto)
    F3 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $7m - 60pts (ditto)
    F4 Bit-overpaid Solid player, $6m - 55pts
    F5 Bit-overpaid Solid player, $6m - 55pts
    F6 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 40pts
    F7 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 30pts
    F8 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 30pts
    $40m - 420pts (Point is... the summation... is BETTER than 10pts per $1m)

    D1 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 20pts
    D2 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 20pts
    D3 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 15pts
    D4 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 15pts
    (Point is... $4m - 70pts... way more than 10pts/$1m)

    G1 Awesome overpaid G that everybody thinks isn't worth it, but you have cap cushion, $8m - 70pts


    OK... I didn't budget this well... $52m... but the point is I got WAY more than 10pts per $1m by using a HIGH-LOW theory.
    You flex out the last F & D easily, all-time-time, for whoever is hot on the wire.

    This system WILL WORK, as long as you get your hands on the top overpaid players.
    Don't be afraid to hold them or pick them up when they are stinking.
    Somebody is going to sour on a $8m Claude Giroux getting only 55pts - and you want him, if he can get you 60-65.

    Use this system.
    Spend on F/G...
    Create cap space with D and last 3 spots of F.

    SHORT ANSWER:
    Keep Ovechkin, even if he only gets you 65-70pts.

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Well...
    This one I can speak on because its the simple model I use for cap league discussion.

    1. The NHL pays defensemen to... play defense (mostly). Knowing this, the best dollars spend in "points only" cap leagues will be on forwards.
    2. So, you stock your 4D positions with $1m - $2m Dmen that might get you 10-20pts. That's still 10pts per $1m. That's your benchmark.
    3. You also know that the best "value" in these cap leagues is filling out your last 2-3 F spots with $1m forwards (rookies or AHL players getting a shot on top line wing). If you get these guys for $1m and they give you 30pts... that's 30pts/$1m... amazing, won't get any better than that for value.
    4. Then you fill in your remainiing spots 5-6F and 1G with your remaining cap dollars.


    Here's how I'd roster a team:
    F1 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $10m - 80pts (note that this is actually LESS than 10pts per $1m)
    F2 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $8m - 70pts (ditto)
    F3 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $7m - 60pts (ditto)
    F4 Bit-overpaid Solid player, $6m - 55pts
    F5 Bit-overpaid Solid player, $6m - 55pts
    F6 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 40pts
    F7 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 30pts
    F8 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 30pts
    $40m - 420pts (Point is... the summation... is BETTER than 10pts per $1m)

    D1 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 20pts
    D2 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 20pts
    D3 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 15pts
    D4 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 15pts
    (Point is... $4m - 70pts... way more than 10pts/$1m)

    G1 Awesome overpaid G that everybody thinks isn't worth it, but you have cap cushion, $8m - 70pts


    OK... I didn't budget this well... $52m... but the point is I got WAY more than 10pts per $1m by using a HIGH-LOW theory.
    You flex out the last F & D easily, all-time-time, for whoever is hot on the wire.

    This system WILL WORK, as long as you get your hands on the top overpaid players.
    Don't be afraid to hold them or pick them up when they are stinking.
    Somebody is going to sour on a $8m Claude Giroux getting only 55pts - and you want him, if he can get you 60-65.

    Use this system.
    Spend on F/G...
    Create cap space with D and last 3 spots of F.

    SHORT ANSWER:
    Keep Ovechkin, even if he only gets you 65-70pts.
    If I apply your logic, I get more or less 560 pts.

    The league is won with 750+ pts each year. I don't see your model working.

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Quote Originally Posted by Murray Bannerman View Post
    If I apply your logic, I get more or less 560 pts.
    The league is won with 750+ pts each year. I don't see your model working.
    Then I'll stop helping you.

    $75m and 750pts wins... hmmm... almost seems like a strategy to get more than 10pts/$1m would be effective.
    I sincerely apologize for spending 10min trying to help you out with my lengthy post and seemingly flawed model. {shaking head - leaving}

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Then I'll stop helping you.
    Snotty. Competitive leagues like the one I'm in can't be won without high scoring defensemen. Also, your admittedly simple model doesn't account for underpaid superstars.

    And to answer the OP question, I'm dropping Ovechkin and he probably won't be owned in our league.
    10 Team Limited Keeper (Keep 8) Points Only
    SALARY CAP (Player Salaries) League
    20 Player Teams = 12 Fwd 6 D 2 G

    My team: ???

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Ovechkin is overpaid and Klingberg has a great contract, so I'd want Klingberg. I only play in cap leagues but I don't have any models as to how to build my team... I'm just looking for good players on good contracts, regardless of how they fit my team.

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    Ovechkin is overpaid and Klingberg has a great contract, so I'd want Klingberg. I only play in cap leagues but I don't have any models as to how to build my team... I'm just looking for good players on good contracts, regardless of how they fit my team.
    Yeah Klingberg is waaay more valuable in cap leagues. In fact he probably has the best contract of any offensive D-man in the league unless I"m forgetting somebody.
    10 Team Limited Keeper (Keep 8) Points Only
    SALARY CAP (Player Salaries) League
    20 Player Teams = 12 Fwd 6 D 2 G

    My team: ???

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    It's ok to have a general strategy but I don't think you can apply a model that is good in all situations. The availability of players is not the same in a 25 teams league then a 10 teams league, with 6 D or 4 D, etc. And you have contracts that are so good and other so bad that you need to adapt for specific opportunities.

    You get a Klingberg with 55 pts and you fill in with a 45 pts guy at $1M in the likes of Sharp, Vanek, Jokinen that nobody wants and you are at 100 pts. If you don't find $1M guys, the top-6, top-9 $2M forwards are far more with a $2M salary then top-4 defenseman at the same price.
    With Ovechkin and a 70 pts, you need to find a 30 pts D to get that 100 pts. A defenseman with 30 pts with a $1M tag is really hard to find because almost all top 4 D earn more then that.

    You will get that 100 pts for half the price with Klingberg.

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    Ovechkin is overpaid and Klingberg has a great contract, so I'd want Klingberg. I only play in cap leagues but I don't have any models as to how to build my team... I'm just looking for good players on good contracts, regardless of how they fit my team.
    Perfect answer. In cap leagues, value is king. In this case, Ovechkin is overpaid as a 70 point player. I'd definitely prefer Klingberg with your league settings.
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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    Ovechkin is overpaid and Klingberg has a great contract, so I'd want Klingberg. I only play in cap leagues but I don't have any models as to how to build my team... I'm just looking for good players on good contracts, regardless of how they fit my team.
    agree with this. Ova has reached the tipping point in PO cap leagues. not enough points to warrant the $$

    Klingberg is what Shattenkirk and Hedman have been for the last few years, but it just started.
    6 Team no limit Keeper. Cap league $100m
    Points only G/A=1, Hattrick = +3, Wins = 2, SO = +3, OTL/SOL = +1
    12 Forwards, 6 Defense, 2 Goalies, 6 Reserve (any position)

    Forwards
    Crosby $8.7
    Stone $9.5
    Svechnikov $7.7
    Debrincat $6.4
    Hall $6
    Meier $6
    Guentzel $6
    Ehlers $6
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    JT Miller $5.2
    Garland $4.9
    Kakko $.9
    Laff $.9


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    Burns $8
    Letang $7.2
    Nurse $5.6
    Werenski $5
    Sergachev $4.8
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    Ullmark $5
    Hart $3.9
    Blackwood $2.8


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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    As with any cap league it depends what you spend the savings on....
    Experience is the teacher of all things.


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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Well...
    This one I can speak on because its the simple model I use for cap league discussion.

    1. The NHL pays defensemen to... play defense (mostly). Knowing this, the best dollars spend in "points only" cap leagues will be on forwards.
    2. So, you stock your 4D positions with $1m - $2m Dmen that might get you 10-20pts. That's still 10pts per $1m. That's your benchmark.
    3. You also know that the best "value" in these cap leagues is filling out your last 2-3 F spots with $1m forwards (rookies or AHL players getting a shot on top line wing). If you get these guys for $1m and they give you 30pts... that's 30pts/$1m... amazing, won't get any better than that for value.
    4. Then you fill in your remainiing spots 5-6F and 1G with your remaining cap dollars.


    Here's how I'd roster a team:
    F1 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $10m - 80pts (note that this is actually LESS than 10pts per $1m)
    F2 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $8m - 70pts (ditto)
    F3 Bit-overpaid Superstar, $7m - 60pts (ditto)
    F4 Bit-overpaid Solid player, $6m - 55pts
    F5 Bit-overpaid Solid player, $6m - 55pts
    F6 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 40pts
    F7 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 30pts
    F8 Rookie/TopWingPlug, $1m - 30pts
    $40m - 420pts (Point is... the summation... is BETTER than 10pts per $1m)

    D1 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 20pts
    D2 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 20pts
    D3 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 15pts
    D4 CrapD that plays TOI, $1m - 15pts
    (Point is... $4m - 70pts... way more than 10pts/$1m)

    G1 Awesome overpaid G that everybody thinks isn't worth it, but you have cap cushion, $8m - 70pts


    OK... I didn't budget this well... $52m... but the point is I got WAY more than 10pts per $1m by using a HIGH-LOW theory.
    You flex out the last F & D easily, all-time-time, for whoever is hot on the wire.

    This system WILL WORK, as long as you get your hands on the top overpaid players.
    Don't be afraid to hold them or pick them up when they are stinking.
    Somebody is going to sour on a $8m Claude Giroux getting only 55pts - and you want him, if he can get you 60-65.

    Use this system.
    Spend on F/G...
    Create cap space with D and last 3 spots of F.

    SHORT ANSWER:
    Keep Ovechkin, even if he only gets you 65-70pts.
    I think this is a solid advice....I'm torn right now about the D's....in my salary cap league, the last 3 season winners did it with productive D's with 5-5.5M AAV....that's why you see players like these on my sig....otherwise, Pengwin advice is right on....
    12 teams dynasty, Points only ( G and A = 1pt)


    F: McDavid (12.5M), Kucherov (9.5M), Boldy (7M), Kyrou (8.13M), J. Norris (7.95M), Zegras (5.95M), Kuzmenko (5.5M), Reichel (0.925M), P. Kane (2.75M), Lundell (0.925M), Rasmussen (1.46M), Rossi (0.86M).

    D: Korchinski (0.925M), Byram (3.85M), Burns (5.28M).

    G: Kochetkov (2M), Shesterkin (5,670M).

    Bench: E. Karlsson (10M), Lucius (0.925M), Edvinsson (0.89M), Askarov (0.925M), Quinn (0.86M), Berggren (0.925M), Stankoven (0.81M), Knight (4.5M), Mitchkov (TBD), Athanasiou (4.25M), Samsonov (3.55M), Klingberg (4.15M).

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    Default Re: Ovechkin Value in a Pts only Cap league

    Klingberg > Ovy in a cap league

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