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Thread: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Vegas also has the responsibility of getting to the cap floor. So taking a couple bad contracts may actually be necessary for Vegas.

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    Vegas does not have to meet the cap floor that the other 30 teams do.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by notch4077 View Post
    Vegas does not have to meet the cap floor that the other 30 teams do.
    I was watching the TSN report with Button and Seravalli and their mock expansion draft, and Button specifically said that Vegas does have the responsibility of reaching the cap floor, which is something that they both took into consideration when creating their mock teams.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    I was watching the TSN report with Button and Seravalli and their mock expansion draft, and Button specifically said that Vegas does have the responsibility of reaching the cap floor, which is something that they both took into consideration when creating their mock teams.

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    Well, they are both wrong unless they explain to you and the viewers that Vegas only needs to get to 60% of the cap or ~$15 million less than other teams must spend to reach the cap floor.
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    I don't believe Vegas needs to reach the cap floor with their expansion picks alone.
    I think even in the TSN info I saw, it listed something in the $40s ($44m?) as the key target.
    I'm sure there's some future point after July FA opens where Vegas will be required to hit the minimum. ($65m? something around there?)

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by notch4077 View Post
    Well, they are both wrong unless they explain to you and the viewers that Vegas only needs to get to 60% of the cap or ~$15 million less than other teams must spend to reach the cap floor.
    Vegas must pick contracts in the expansion draft that reach 60% of the cap floor for the upcoming season. They absolutely must be between the cap floor and the cap ceiling just like every other team in the NHL when the opening day rosters are set.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    The more I think about this, the less sense it makes. A 1st round pick shouldn't be enough to take two bad contracts. And if they would burn their expansion draft selection on Kulemin, then they wouldn't get Nelson or Strome either. Just doesn't make any sense. The Islanders chose to expose Nelson and Strome, so those two should be fair game. If the Islanders don't want to lose them, they should make a side deal. That should cost them a 1st+. Taking two bad contracts, that should again cost them a 1st+.

    So by my estimate, the Islanders should lose Nelson or Strome, and they should give their 1st round pick (at least) to get rid of Kulemin and Grabovski. If Vegas gets anything less, then I don't understand what they're doing.
    Keep in mind that the deal may well have been made prior to submitting the protected roster. In a sense, the lists submitted are meaningless for the teams that have reached side deals.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    If the Vegas owner is paying $11.25M in real money, he wants to get something really good in return! No owner is crazy enough to throw that kind of money to waste.
    I don't know.
    You don't know.
    What an owner thinks about spending a real $11.25m can be very subjective.
    Yeah... if this is my money or your money... obviously we are a little more delicate with it.
    A 15th overall draft pick doesn't seem like its enough to push any team to some new echelon worth $11.25m... I think we'd agree on that.

    But any owner/investor knows that you have to sink a TON of cash into a new investment on the front-end.
    Its even worth over-spending on the front end of an investment if there is more assurance that it creates a great long-term product.
    [I mean, I was just reading a Ken Holland article about having to (over-pay) his young players at their RFA/UFA date or be stock with no asset-return-value. I think giving $20m to Darren Helm is a $11.25m overpay, but they did it.]
    Also - one of the better values on players is the potential a team can get out of a good young player on his entry level or bridge RFA deal.
    Once a guy gets older, like Strome/Bailey, you're lucky to get even value out of their contract you have to give them anyways.

    For Vegas ownership, I'd have to believe they don't even have the slightest clue what a draft pick is worth in terms of "real cash".
    But I do think we assume (knowing savvy investors on risk/reward items like this) that they've given GMGM a green light to stock as many assets as he can.

    It may be overspending to you & me...
    But its not necessarily overspending to a new owner on the initial stages of a major, major investment.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    I don't know.
    You don't know.
    What an owner thinks about spending a real $11.25m can be very subjective.
    Yeah... if this is my money or your money... obviously we are a little more delicate with it.
    A 15th overall draft pick doesn't seem like its enough to push any team to some new echelon worth $11.25m... I think we'd agree on that.

    But any owner/investor knows that you have to sink a TON of cash into a new investment on the front-end.
    Its even worth over-spending on the front end of an investment if there is more assurance that it creates a great long-term product.
    [I mean, I was just reading a Ken Holland article about having to (over-pay) his young players at their RFA/UFA date or be stock with no asset-return-value. I think giving $20m to Darren Helm is a $11.25m overpay, but they did it.]

    For Vegas ownership, I'd have to believe they don't even have the slightest clue what a draft pick is worth in terms of "real cash".
    But I do think we assume (knowing savvy investors on risk/reward items like this) that they've given GMGM a green light to stock as many assets as he can.

    It may be overspending to you & me...
    But its not necessarily overspending to a new owner on the initial stages of a major, major investment.
    I'll just add that any asset they select that is on an expiring contract - could be seen as potential to return another asset come trade deadline. A healthy Kulemin/Grabovski could fetch 2nd or 3rd round picks for the next draft. With one year remaining on contracts - that model will be given serious contemplation.

    Gotta think Eric Staal looks mighty attractive - especially in that light
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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    Arthur Staple‏Verified account @StapeNewsday 25m25 minutes ago


    Also my understanding is Nikolai Kulemin is not the designated player for Vegas to pick. Sorry for the confusion last night. #Isles
    gheez , this is the 4th adjustment Staple's made since the original statement last night .

    if its not kulemin my guess would be Hickey+1st+Grabbo

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    I don't know.
    You don't know.
    What an owner thinks about spending a real $11.25m can be very subjective.
    Yeah... if this is my money or your money... obviously we are a little more delicate with it.
    A 15th overall draft pick doesn't seem like its enough to push any team to some new echelon worth $11.25m... I think we'd agree on that.

    But any owner/investor knows that you have to sink a TON of cash into a new investment on the front-end.
    Its even worth over-spending on the front end of an investment if there is more assurance that it creates a great long-term product.
    [I mean, I was just reading a Ken Holland article about having to (over-pay) his young players at their RFA/UFA date or be stock with no asset-return-value. I think giving $20m to Darren Helm is a $11.25m overpay, but they did it.]
    Also - one of the better values on players is the potential a team can get out of a good young player on his entry level or bridge RFA deal.
    Once a guy gets older, like Strome/Bailey, you're lucky to get even value out of their contract you have to give them anyways.

    For Vegas ownership, I'd have to believe they don't even have the slightest clue what a draft pick is worth in terms of "real cash".
    But I do think we assume (knowing savvy investors on risk/reward items like this) that they've given GMGM a green light to stock as many assets as he can.

    It may be overspending to you & me...
    But its not necessarily overspending to a new owner on the initial stages of a major, major investment.
    The owners might not understand what draft picks are worth but the people running the show do, and they know that $9M cap hit and $11.25M in real money is worth more than 15th overall pick. That's 15% of next year's salary cap! I doubt the owners are just writing blank checks and letting the GM run the show on his own - they must be asking "why exactly is this worth $11.25M of my hard-earned money?" and the GM needs to explain that. I'm sure they're prepared to spend a lot of money on the team but I doubt they're just throwing millions to waste without at least asking for an explanation.

    But as I said, the 15th overall might be good enough to take those two contracts. Maybe. But it's definitely not good enough to also lose out on Nelson/Strome.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    So... per updated tweet... Vegas will not be selecting (Kulemin).... and trading for (Grabovski) and the 15th.
    Gosh - I can't imagine some other way they could pull this off... teehee.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    I doubt the owners are just writing blank checks and letting the GM run the show on his own - they must be asking "why exactly is this worth $11.25M of my hard-earned money?" and the GM needs to explain that.
    I don't think it works like that (GM constantly needing to check in with owner if spending $11m is OK... or not).
    I think most owners give their GM a green light to do a job as he sees fit. [Maybe they tell him - don't spend more than $80m on the players, something like that, possible.]
    They hire him based on his past experience and the past bottom lines of the franchises he's GM'd.
    If his bottom lines look good (say, WAS's net numbers when GMGM was there)... then they let him go and do his thing.

    Owners have NO CLUE about these things - player value vs. actual $$$ cost vs. draft pick value (immediate & future).
    They simply do what most owners in most businesses do... hire a guy they believe is competent to get them to their end goal.

    (And... I mean... I've gone through the same thinking as you are putting forth. Heck, I thought it was a bit ridiculous for Nashville ownership to let Poile give Weber so much front-end bonus money every July 1st... but they did that! And I bet every veteran GM will bring up Poile/NAS/Weber contract expenses going forward whenever an owner questions a quickly spent $13m....)

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by notch4077 View Post
    Well, they are both wrong unless they explain to you and the viewers that Vegas only needs to get to 60% of the cap or ~$15 million less than other teams must spend to reach the cap floor.
    Ok that makes sense. I may have misunderstood Button. I know that he did say that they have to be at the Floor on opening day. I am not sure how tough it would be for a team like this to hit the floor if they don't take a bloated salary or two in the expansion draft.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    I don't think it works like that (GM constantly needing to check in with owner if spending $11m is OK... or not).
    I think most owners give their GM a green light to do a job as he sees fit. [Maybe they tell him - don't spend more than $80m on the players, something like that, possible.]
    They hire him based on his past experience and the past bottom lines of the franchises he's GM'd.
    If his bottom lines look good (say, WAS's net numbers when GMGM was there)... then they let him go and do his thing.

    Owners have NO CLUE about these things - player value vs. actual $$$ cost vs. draft pick value (immediate & future).
    They simply do what most owners in most businesses do... hire a guy they believe is competent to get them to their end goal.

    (And... I mean... I've gone through the same thinking as you are putting forth. Heck, I thought it was a bit ridiculous for Nashville ownership to let Poile give Weber so much front-end bonus money every July 1st... but they did that! And I bet every veteran GM will bring up Poile/NAS/Weber contract expenses going forward whenever an owner questions a quickly spent $13m....)
    I guess it depends on the owner(s). Some of them are more in sync with the day-to-day stuff and others are not. I would guess that at least when they're in the initial building phase, they'd have some interest talking to the GM on somewhat regular basis.

    And $80M would be pretty high at this point for them I think. I'm thinking they may set that number somewhere around $65M or so. Either way, $11M is about 15% of their annual budget, so the GM probably doesn't want to tie his hands that much without getting something really good in return. Is 15th overall enough? Maybe, I don't know. It's not great value, that's for sure but maybe it's enough.

    Weber's contract structure was created by Philly, and most likely the Nashville owners went through the whole thing without deciding to match the offer sheet. It's not like their own GM decided to structure it like that.

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    Default Re: [Rumor] Snow trades Grabovski and a 1st rounder to Vegas for McPhee to pick Kulemin

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Vegas must pick contracts in the expansion draft that reach 60% of the cap floor for the upcoming season. They absolutely must be between the cap floor and the cap ceiling just like every other team in the NHL when the opening day rosters are set.
    Agree

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