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Thread: Crosby down

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    Isn't your argument pretty much what Don Cherry has been saying for years? You take the fighting out of the game, evoke the instigator rule and watch the stick work go through the roof.
    ....and Cherry was only right because the NHL allows it. Stick work, (slashing/cross checking), are infractions according to the rule book. Why enforce the instigator rule and not enforce slashing or cross checking? Makes no sense. If the referee's can make a judgement call on every stick infraction, some retaliatory, then why not make a judgement call on the instigator rule, some of which are retaliatory? I actually can't believe the NHLPA doesn't do anything about the enforcement of stick work.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    In my opinion, anybody who thinks Niskanen did anything wrong is simply looking for someone to blame for Crosby's concussion. It was an accident. I am sure even Crosby will admit as much once he speaks about this incident.

    Niskanen did nothing.

    He is about as guilty of an offence as the boards are when a player crashes into them head first.

    If that play earned Niskanen a suspension everybody might as well toss out their sticks and take up figure skating.
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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Crosby didn't not get suspended for that play because he's Crosby, or because it was on Methot. Crosby didn't get suspended because that play doesn't get suspended. Staal didn't get suspended when he broke Gaudreau's hand. Ovechkin didn't get suspended when he did it to Crosby last year. Slashes to the hand are barely ever given a two minute penalty, let alone supplemental discipline. Methot's finger looked bad, but it was ultimately just a broken finger. He's not permanently missing his finger. People want to create a double standard that doesn't exist. I think you'd be extremely hard pressed to find even 5 suspensions over the last 5 years stemming from slashes that caused broken hands. With the O'Reilly spear, it should have been a suspension, but the NHL has shown they don't generally hand out supplemental discipline for those plays. They proved this when they handed Draisatl a fine for a far worse spear against the Sharks, where Tierney actually stayed down and was injured. Brad Marchand also speared Dotchin way harder than Crosby hit O'Reilly and he has a massive history. O'Reilly didn't even leave the ice. The NHL is the only professional sports league that doesn't go out of their way to protect their stars and they definitely don't give them special treatment.

    There should be a double standard. Stars should be treated differently and given more protection. Their the entire financial basis of the survival of the league. Nobody is paying $130 on a Tuesday night to watch Daniel Winnik and Tom Wilson flub passes on a 2 on 1. The fact is, that double standard simply does not exist. FWIW, Dustin Byfuglien got a longer suspension for a cross check on JT Miller than Brandon Dubinsky got for a near identical play on Sidney Crosby, The NHL never goes out of it's way to protect it's stars.

    All of those however, are separate from the fact that a cross check to the face is inexcusable, regardless of who delivers it and who receives it, and it should always be a 5 and a game and a suspension.

    1) How does someone get a massive history if they are like Crosby and don't get suspended because they don't have a history. I don't think there was 3 games worth of difference between Crosby and Marchand's spears. Yes, Marchand only got 2 game suspension, but he also got a major and kicked out of game. And Crosby didn't even get a penalty if I recall.

    2) I disagree with there should be a double standard for 2 reasons - one of which you agreed with yourself.
    i) 'a cross check, is a cross check is a cross check' All players should be treated equally when it comes to suspension and penalties. The hits to the head are not any less serious if it is against a fringe NHL player than it is Crosby.
    ii) Fringe NHL players should be protected the exact same way. They have lives to live after hockey, they have families to support... there should NOT be a double standard at all. Penalties should be called by the book, and suspensions handed out the same way.


    As I mentioned before, the NHL player safety has messed up on this and has not set a precedent for this... but the precedent that they have set is that precedents make to big of roll in their decisions. And by this I mean Crosby not getting anything for his spear because he doesn't have the same history as Marchand. And yes I agree Marchands was more vicious, but a stick to the nuts is a stick to the nuts is a stick to the nuts.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by Godin View Post
    ....and Cherry was only right because the NHL allows it. Stick work, (slashing/cross checking), are infractions according to the rule book. Why enforce the instigator rule and not enforce slashing or cross checking? Makes no sense. If the referee's can make a judgement call on every stick infraction, some retaliatory, then why not make a judgement call on the instigator rule, some of which are retaliatory? I actually can't believe the NHLPA doesn't do anything about the enforcement of stick work.
    I dont think ANYONE does anything to enforce the stick work issue. It's ridiculous. I can guarantee you that crap didn't fly back in the day. You hack someone across the wrists like they do now and someone would be paying for it. That doesn't happen anymore and thus, the stick work continues.
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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by Godin View Post
    ....and Cherry was only right because the NHL allows it. Stick work, (slashing/cross checking), are infractions according to the rule book. Why enforce the instigator rule and not enforce slashing or cross checking? Makes no sense. If the referee's can make a judgement call on every stick infraction, some retaliatory, then why not make a judgement call on the instigator rule, some of which are retaliatory? I actually can't believe the NHLPA doesn't do anything about the enforcement of stick work.
    Is it actually true that stick work is worse or more frequent now than before that rule was removed, or do people just think it is worse? I wonder about the answer to that. Take into account the number of cameras on the ice, technology in instant replay etc, and I wonder if much has changed in that regards.

    Look at some of the worst incidents (Dave Brown smashing Sandstrom's face in with his stick comes to mind) that happened before the instigator wording was changed (keep in mind there was always the rule but it got changed after Bettman came around I believe).

    I wouldn't take a single thing Don Cherry says at face value. He is an entertainer, not a researcher or scientist that can make sense of data. Even if Cherry was capable of doing that, that's not his role. His role is to play a part and he does it each and every time he shows up.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Let's not forget the players themselves don't want suspensions. I think if the NHLPA and the players got on board, then we'd start seeing more suspensions (and longer ones for those that are suspensions).

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    1) How does someone get a massive history if they are like Crosby and don't get suspended because they don't have a history. I don't think there was 3 games worth of difference between Crosby and Marchand's spears. Yes, Marchand only got 2 game suspension, but he also got a major and kicked out of game. And Crosby didn't even get a penalty if I recall.

    2) I disagree with there should be a double standard for 2 reasons - one of which you agreed with yourself.
    i) 'a cross check, is a cross check is a cross check' All players should be treated equally when it comes to suspension and penalties. The hits to the head are not any less serious if it is against a fringe NHL player than it is Crosby.
    ii) Fringe NHL players should be protected the exact same way. They have lives to live after hockey, they have families to support... there should NOT be a double standard at all. Penalties should be called by the book, and suspensions handed out the same way.


    As I mentioned before, the NHL player safety has messed up on this and has not set a precedent for this... but the precedent that they have set is that precedents make to big of roll in their decisions. And by this I mean Crosby not getting anything for his spear because he doesn't have the same history as Marchand. And yes I agree Marchands was more vicious, but a stick to the nuts is a stick to the nuts is a stick to the nuts.
    Notice I did say it should have been a suspension, just also provided examples of far worse instances of the same play that didn't get a suspension (Draisatl).

    Every base suspension is inherently too weak, because the NHL sucks. If you think other leagues don't go out of the way to protect their marquee stars, well, let me introduce to the specific QB rules of the NFL. Superstars shouldn't get lighter suspensions than other players for illegal acts, but fringe NHLers should face harsher penalties for injuring stars. As far as the league is concerned, they don't matter. Taking them out of the game doesn't hurt the game. They should all be afforded the same basic protections (which the NHL fails at miserably), but yes stars should be protected even more. They're the lifeblood of the NHL.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    fringe NHLers should face harsher penalties for injuring stars. As far as the league is concerned, they don't matter. Taking them out of the game doesn't hurt the game.
    This might be, the single most ridiculous thing, that you have ever said. I have always know that I just didn't get you, but this takes it to another level.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    I do not believe that Niskanen meant to hit Crosby in the head with a crosscheck.
    I do believe that Niskanen saw Crosby falling towards him and tried to give him a shot, where his stick happened to hit Crosby's head.

    We are talking about intent. If I intend to push you, which causes you to stumble, slip and crack your head, I am still guilty of pushing you. Was is foreseeable that you cracked your head? Maybe.

    In the end Niskanen held his stick in 2 hands and thrust it forward and crosschecked another player, which happened to make contact with Crosby's head.

    Call it guilt, responsible, fault .. whatever.... your action injured another player badly. The action (crosscheck) is illegal.

    To say it is a hockey play validates crosschecks, so take them out of the rulebook.
    To say that it was unintentional does not matter, like 90% of the tripping or over the glass penalties.
    To say that the fact it is Crosby should not matter, is just stupid, because you have made it OK, to take stars out of the game, through a penalty, with little consequences.

    Knowing this......I would be going "Paul Bunyon" (by accident) on OVs ankle to see if that Russian machine can break..... It's likely worth the 5 minute break.

    I am sure Crosby is grateful for not having fighting in the game, as he does not take all those punches to the head, that could lead to a concussion. .................................... Wait, what?

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    This might be, the single most ridiculous thing, that you have ever said. I have always know that I just didn't get you, but this takes it to another level.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    In regards to Crosby's recovery, RotoWorld shared this:

    ''The team will likely be very cautious with him, but the good news is that Crosby appears to be upbeat about the situation. "We're very optimistic and hopeful we'll have him back in a timely fashion," said Sullivan''

    I know there are certain degrees of concussions, but given his recent history with them, how ''optimistic and hopeful'' can you truly be for a ''timely'' return?
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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by Bass56 View Post
    In regards to Crosby's recovery, RotoWorld shared this:

    ''The team will likely be very cautious with him, but the good news is that Crosby appears to be upbeat about the situation. "We're very optimistic and hopeful we'll have him back in a timely fashion," said Sullivan''

    I know there are certain degrees of concussions, but given his recent history with them, how ''optimistic and hopeful'' can you truly be for a ''timely'' return?
    His recent history is returning in 6 games.

    Unless you're referring to 7-8 years ago as "recent" history

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    I have actually heard, that with recent medical advances and information, treatment for concussions today is light years ahead of where it was even 20 years ago. In Lindros' situation, he would be concussed, then concussed again without being recovered, then concussed again, etc. This leads to serious issues. However, in situations where concussions are dealt with and fully recovered from, such as in Crosby's case, further concussions do not seem to pose much of a greater risk than normal because of his concussion history. That would indicate that it is highly possible that Crosby will recover from this as if he didn't have a lengthy concussion history.

    I don't remember exactly where I read this, but I do know it was a respectable medical source. If that's the case, it is good news for Crosby and people with a concussion history moving forward.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    His recent history is returning in 6 games.

    Unless you're referring to 7-8 years ago as "recent" history
    Well lets just say this year but with a twist... He came back in 6 games, but his last concussion was in Jan 2011... Almost 6 years had passed before the October 2016 one had happened. Now, we are talking about 7 months that have passed since his last concussion. I'm not expert in head/brain injuries, but I would think that the ''fresher'' the injury, the worst it is the next time around? Then again, maybe a full 7 months is equal to 6 years in this case if the injury is fully ''healed''?!
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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Here's some news on him:

    http://www.tsn.ca/1.742608.1493932540

    CROSBY SKATING ON PENGUINS' OFF DAY #TSN
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