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Thread: Crosby down

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by newfcollins View Post
    My initial reaction is he did damage to his leg. I didn't even think head until they keep showing the crosscheck. Look at the way Crosby's on the ice, the way he rolled over, the way he lies on his side when the trainer is checking on him. Looks like a knee/leg problem to me.
    fingers crossed if you own Crosby. Sad to say, but an injury anywhere else but the head is good news. It's tough to say when you take two different sticks to the head and become a human pretzel in the same play
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    The hands don't go up, Crosby's head goes down as he's falling from the high stick from Ovie. Niskanen doesn't even make a significant forward motion with his arms, other than perhaps to keep distance from a checking player. Watching his eyes, he's following the play, not Crosby. It's not only lack of intent here... there isn't even that normal front of the net cross checking motion from what I can see, I've now watched this about 30-40 times.

    He's bracing for impact from Sid coming at him. I'd like some other folks to watch this a bunch of times too. Nisk. isn't even throwing a cross check at all.

    +1 for what it's worth coming from a completely biased penguin hunting, Philadelphia fan.

    I completely agree wth niskanen watching the play and not Crosby. And that is stick is at normal level it's Crosby that is falling. If Pittsburgh has anything to complain about it might be ovechkins stick around crosbys head. But that's a 2 minute penalty and is definitely not a suspension

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    Niskanen's clear intent was to bury Crosby to end that play. He was obviously planning for it to be from behind, and then Crosby turned/got twisted around. But his intent was always contact with Crosby, that's why he was skating towards him.

    At the end of the day, a cross check to the head is a cross check to the head. Intent doesn't matter, actions do. It was a cross check to the head. If it was the other way around, as a completely biased Penguins fan, I would hope and expect Crosby to get 5 and a game. Because there's no place in the game for cross checks to the head.

    If y'all are fine with them in the game, keep banging the table for a 2 minute minor. I personally, as someone who ACTUALLY CARES about player safety, and not the embarrassing facade the NHL and a large portion of their fans and media pretend to care about, have no place for cross checks to the head in the game, intentional or not.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Niskanen's clear intent was to bury Crosby to end that play. He was obviously planning for it to be from behind, and then Crosby turned/got twisted around. But his intent was always contact with Crosby, that's why he was skating towards him.

    At the end of the day, a cross check to the head is a cross check to the head. Intent doesn't matter, actions do. It was a cross check to the head. If it was the other way around, as a completely biased Penguins fan, I would hope and expect Crosby to get 5 and a game. Because there's no place in the game for cross checks to the head.

    If y'all are fine with them in the game, keep banging the table for a 2 minute minor. I personally, as someone who ACTUALLY CARES about player safety, and not the embarrassing facade the NHL and a large portion of their fans and media pretend to care about, have no place for cross checks to the head in the game, intentional or not.
    Such a ridiculous post, top to bottom... So, intent doesn't matter? Really? Tell that to Steve Moore...

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Well... there goes my hockey pool.

    Hopefully he's ok. Hate to see that happen to Crosby (or anyone) and it would be shitty to see a series get decided like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Such a ridiculous post, top to bottom... So, intent doesn't matter? Really? Tell that to Steve Moore...

    Rylant
    Bertuzzi didn't intend to break his neck, so that makes it better? Is that what you're saying? Because that appears to be what you're saying. If Bertuzzi punched Steve Moore from the front, in a scrum, with a clear different intent but still broke his neck, that would have been better? I'm honestly baffled by your example and how it applies, but in your specific example I'd say that no, intent doesn't matter at all. Result did, intentional or not.

    The best I can come up with is you're confusing intent with pre-meditation, but outside of that, I'm actually baffled at what exactly you're trying to get at here.

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    Default Re: Crosby down

    really hoping its a leg injury. leg injuries have finite heal times.

    another bad concussion tho.....
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    Hope he is ok. Never like to see a guy with head injuries go down like that. Dont think Niskanen should receive anything on that at all. Unfortunate incident.

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    This is just terrible for Crosby. As a hockey fan I wish him the best and a speedy recovery. As a human being if this is another serious concussion (which I fear it is, I know there's debate about a leg injury but the way he was on the ice screamed head injury to me) I almost hope that he considers moving on from the game. Tough to watch.
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  10. #25
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    just an unfortunate set of circumstances all around. Don't think Niskanen should have been ejected as it appeared he was bracing himself and more or less paying attention to the play away from Crosby but that is how the cookie crumbles. Refs are expected to make on the spot calls and don't get the luxury of seeing the replay as much as i did. Either way you definitely don't want to see any player being helped off the ice like Crosby had to. Hopefully Crosby has a speedy recovery but am not expecting him to play in this series but then again I'm no doctor or concussion expert. Go Penguins!

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    Nasty game. Happy Washington won if only because I want this one to go the distance for sheer entertainment value.

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    My opinion on the play and how I see it:

    I think the major was correct and worthy of a suspension (although I do agree it was silly that it started out as a minor and then changed later).

    If you watch the video and pay attention to Niskanen, he is coasting with one hand on his stick until he knows he's close to Crosby and then both hands come on the stick into the cross-check position and he follows through. He has his eyes on Crosby the whole way and knows hes coming. Does he intend to hit his head? I'd say no but unfortunately he does and as it's said many times, players are responsible for their stick at all times. In this play, it's a hit to the head.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    The hands don't go up, Crosby's head goes down as he's falling from the high stick from Ovie. Niskanen doesn't even make a significant forward motion with his arms, other than perhaps to keep distance from a checking player. Watching his eyes, he's following the play, not Crosby. It's not only lack of intent here... there isn't even that normal front of the net cross checking motion from what I can see, I've now watched this about 30-40 times.

    He's bracing for impact from Sid coming at him. I'd like some other folks to watch this a bunch of times too. Nisk. isn't even throwing a cross check at all.
    Good post. Pretty much sums up how I saw it.

    Sucks though. Feel bad for Pittsburgh and sure don't want to see Washington win in this way.
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    Default Re: Crosby down

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Bertuzzi didn't intend to break his neck, so that makes it better? Is that what you're saying? Because that appears to be what you're saying. If Bertuzzi punched Steve Moore from the front, in a scrum, with a clear different intent but still broke his neck, that would have been better? I'm honestly baffled by your example and how it applies, but in your specific example I'd say that no, intent doesn't matter at all. Result did, intentional or not.

    The best I can come up with is you're confusing intent with pre-meditation, but outside of that, I'm actually baffled at what exactly you're trying to get at here.
    Well, you can't intend to injure somebody or intend to cross-check somebody in the face, without premeditating it. Hell, thefreedictionary.com defines premeditate as; intend to carry out. So, they are at the very least, largely related. Sorry if that's too complicated for you to grasp.

    The Moore/Bertuzzi incident was horrible. Yes, without a doubt, without intent, it would have been better. You seem to think that the only thing that matters is the result. By that logic, the way it actually went down should be considered the same thing, as if Moore would have broken his neck due to a completely legal check from Bertuzzi, with no intent which just happened to be an accident. You can't see the difference between the two? I tell you; that, is baffling.

    I think, that in order for something to be called a major penalty, several things should be taken into consideration. 1) the circumstances of the play. 2) the recklessness or carelessness of the play. 3) intent. 4) if the player on the receiving end was injured or not.

    In this case, I don't think Niskanen did anything nasty, it wasn't reckless, there was no intent, and Crosby was injured. The result shouldn't be the only thing taken into consideration. Now of course players need to be responsible for their actions and I am not saying there shouldn't have been a penalty on the play. I think it should have been a minor penalty, however, it wouldn't have bothered me nearly as much, had they called it a major penalty in the first place. As I have said, I really don't like that they called it a minor penalty, and then 2 minutes later, decided that it should be a major penalty. The possibility that they factored in that it was Crosby, and he was favouring his head, and he has a history of concussions doesn't seem right to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post

    In this case, I don't think Niskanen did anything nasty, it wasn't reckless, there was no intent, and Crosby was injured. The result shouldn't be the only thing taken into consideration. Now of course players need to be responsible for their actions and I am not saying there shouldn't have been a penalty on the play. I think it should have been a minor penalty, however, it wouldn't have bothered me nearly as much, had they called it a major penalty in the first place. As I have said, I really don't like that they called it a minor penalty, and then 2 minutes later, decided that it should be a major penalty. The possibility that they factored in that it was Crosby, and he was favouring his head, and he has a history of concussions doesn't seem right to me.

    Rylant
    This is very well stated. The only part I slightly disagree with is the major penalty. If Crosby pops back up there is probably only a penalty on Ovechkin but because of Niskanen's move and Crosby's injury a major is an appropriate call. I do think player and injury should play a role in the call.
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