Sheary/Guentzel vs other forwards

[Eazy BZ]

What's your thoughts on Sheary (LW/RW) and Guentzel (C/LW) vs these other forwards? Kesler, Hoffman (LW/RW), Atkinson, Voracek (LW/RW). Could you make a case to keep the pens wingers over those guys? I keep reading Dobber's ramblings on these guys and they are becoming more intriguing every time. Most of the players I stated have dual position eligibility but that may change heading into next year.

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[Eskimo Brother]

You could definitely make the case. Next season I think they both outpoint Voracek. Atkinson may come down a touch, and end up within 5pts of both of them. Hoffman's value is in the shots and goals, but his peripherals aren't ideal. Kesler is a lot tougher to compare as he's older, a centre, and a multicat beast.

Really depends on what your team needs and what your strategy is going into next season.

[jcheung29]

I'm curious as to what people think about Guetzel vs Sheary. Tough comparison considering they basically have the exact same deployment.

[Eskimo Brother]

I'm curious as to what people think about Guetzel vs Sheary. Tough comparison considering they basically have the exact same deployment.

Guentzel by a hair for me just based on his pedigree and success at previous levels.

[Leafs2010]

Not sure how Dobber thinks Sheary/Guentzel will get 85 pts without PP1 time

[Sulla]

Kesler is tops due to multi cat factor... After that I can think a case can be made for any. Hoffman won't post the assists and for me loses value with no shots, Atkinson could regress with the entire Jackets IMO (can't see them having he same run as last year and already their pp looks 'normal'), Voracek and Philly's one trick pony has also been found out so needs re enforcement IMO. Shesry and Guentzel haven't done it for a while season yet

[RizzeeDizzee]

I will post here what I posted in another subforum earlier today, since it's arguably as relevant:

Anybody remember Shawn McEachern? He was a 6th round pick in 1989 and in 1992-93 he posted 61 points as in his first full season for the Pens at age 23, and only posted 60+ once more again, and not until nearly a decade later. But boy oh boy was there hype for him going into 1993-94. Also, there's the reality that the list of Pens forwards to score 65+ points in a season since Crosby came into the league in 2005-06 consists of exactly six players - Crosby (10 times), Malkin (8 times), and one time each for Kessel, Neal, Kunitz, and Recchi.

Another key point is indeed PP Time. Here were the PPPts for each of the four in their seasons when they posted 65+ - Neal (30), Kessel (30), Recchi (27), Kunitz (22). I think Sheary and Guentzel will be hard pressed to post anything close to those numbers unless they're both PP1 staples, which is unlikely since the Pens will run with Malkin, Crosby, Kessel, 1D, and for the fifth spot either another D or, as they have for ages, a large bodied forward (like Kunitz, or before him Neal, and which currently is Hornqvist).

Can Sheary and/or Guentzel go nuts and post huge numbers? Of course it's possible; however, this data shows that it's not as easy as it would seem. Two words - buyer beware.

[staticRhymes]

also consider when they don't play with Crosby, nothing lasts forever. I like Atkinson the most out of the bunch

[Bass56]

Voracek in a heartbeat for me! Best combination of proven talent and age IMO! He had a down year; so did most players in Philly. As an owner, I expect him (and a few other Flyers) to bounce back next year.

I would also want Kessler afterwards (even without FOW and his age factor)

[forumname]

Voracek in a heartbeat for me! Best combination of proven talent and age IMO! He had a down year; so did most players in Philly.

I don't see how you can call it a "down year" when it's been 2 years in a row. Has he just has a double-down-year, which he's ready to spring back to life from? Seems more likely to me that he's a 60-65 point player who had an "up year" a couple years ago.

[Sulla]

I will post here what I posted in another subforum earlier today, since it's arguably as relevant:

Anybody remember Shawn McEachern? He was a 6th round pick in 1989 and in 1992-93 he posted 61 points as in his first full season for the Pens at age 23, and only posted 60+ once more again, and not until nearly a decade later. But boy oh boy was there hype for him going into 1993-94. Also, there's the reality that the list of Pens forwards to score 65+ points in a season since Crosby came into the league in 2005-06 consists of exactly six players - Crosby (10 times), Malkin (8 times), and one time each for Kessel, Neal, Kunitz, and Recchi.

Another key point is indeed PP Time. Here were the PPPts for each of the four in their seasons when they posted 65+ - Neal (30), Kessel (30), Recchi (27), Kunitz (22). I think Sheary and Guentzel will be hard pressed to post anything close to those numbers unless they're both PP1 staples, which is unlikely since the Pens will run with Malkin, Crosby, Kessel, 1D, and for the fifth spot either another D or, as they have for ages, a large bodied forward (like Kunitz, or before him Neal, and which currently is Hornqvist).

Can Sheary and/or Guentzel go nuts and post huge numbers? Of course it's possible; however, this data shows that it's not as easy as it would seem. Two words - buyer beware.

The one point I would make here... That's an awful long time to go back! Hockey has never been so advanced and I'd argue that athletes are better prepared, conditioned and 'grounded' as to what makes them succesful and to maximise their careers (and earning potential).

You note the guys that have listed 65 points plus since 2005-6 and I'd argue that each spent the majority of time with Cdosby and/Malkin in those seasons and that when either/both missed significant time then those other players points diminished. Now Guentzel and Sheary are best suited to top 6 minutes compared to the likes of Recchi (when with the pens) and Kunitz who could also play down the line up and contribute which also played a part.

re pp points yes the lack of pp1 is a concern but they can still post 10-15 points on pp2 with the odd bounce up to pp1.... Crosby posted 89 points (25pp) points and didn't play with these two all season (and missed some time - more on that later) but if Crosby repeats those even strength points and they are only in on around 50% of them. With the pp you are already at 50ish...

as I mentioned on the other thread I'm more concerned about them not posting 65 plus based on health (of them and Malkin/Sid) rather than pure ability or usage. Do I think they are the best bets in this scenario? Possibly not but I think every player on this list has a drawback

[Crazy Joe Davola]

PP1 time is a must to load up points at an elite level. This much we know.

I think both Sheary and Pretzel can break 60 points without it, and that will be solid fantasy production. I also have an inkling that Hornqvist is either moved in the offseason or finds himself shifted back to PP2 in exchange for one of the youngsters - my guess being Guentzel.

Despite his slight stature, JG is a gritty player who does well as a net front player and is very cerebral. You watch him set up shop in the hash marks/blue paint at even strength and Sid finds him as he gets just enough separation. That type of ability will do very well on the top unit.

Give me Guentzel over Sheary and pencil me in for projecting him to push close to 70 points in a healthy 2017-18 season.

[jcheung29]

As of the last 3 playoff games, the most common PP1 for Pittsburgh (per Dobber lines) was Crosby-Malkin-Kessel-Guentzel-Schultz

Looks like the shift has started.

[kevinsrangers]

I'd take voracek, atkinson and kessler first. these guys aren't dependant on Crosby. also guentzel, sheery, and Crosby all have to stay healthy for them to jump into my list, which is not very likely imo.