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Thread: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

  1. #1
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    Default Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Pasting this from my comment on another thread that seems to have died without any further discussion.

    I will be watching with some interest to see where Mason lands. IMO he is a bit better than people give him credit for...

    This season was a struggle for both Mason and Neuvirth overall, which isn't surprising with the way their defense played for most of the year. That being said, Mason ended the year very well with a 2.12 GAA and .926 save% from February 9 to the end of the season.

    He is only 28 years old, and I think that in the right situation he could be a very good fantasy goalie. Probably not top 5 but maybe top 10.

    This pre 2016-17 tire fire quote is interesting to me:
    Since 4/3/13, Mason has .930 even strength SV%, 9th in NHL, 12th in overall SV% .920, T13th 82 wins, 17th GAA 2.45 (Bobrovsky 21st at 2.49) https://t.co/jKRzLYLbf2
    Adam Kimelman (@NHLAdamK)
    November 18, 2016

    If you look at a larger sample, since he started playing for Philadelphia in 2012-13 Mason has a .918 overall save% (after factoring in this forgettable season). This year only 9 goalies had better than a .918 save % with 40 or more starts. Three guys finished with .918 save% this year. Corey Crawford, Pekka Rinne, and Frederik Andersen.

    Thoughts? Is Steve Mason being underrated?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    He is streaky... he has great stretches (like the end of this season, and the end of last season where he helped the Flyers with the big push to get into the playoffs)

    Then he has bad stretches where he lets in a bunch or gets injured.

    I honestly think there will be one season in the next 5 where he has a Bobrovsky like season and is in the Vezina discussion..... but there will be frustrating times in the other 4 seasons. If he signs somewhere like Dallas, could have a huge season... somewhere where there isn't the Flyers fans booing him every time he is playing bad... that has to play with a guys mind!

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    He's a decent goalie, but he won't exceed expectations until he has a steady defence in front of him and gets a steady amount of starts.
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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    He's had a solid run with the Flyers but is prone to seasons like the one he just had. I don't agree with the "underrated" part though.


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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Goaltending is tough to evaluate & forecast.
    One certainly shouldn't go selectively choosing date ranges.

    As soon as I see "from February 9 to...", all I see is "wasn't very good prior to the date I'm choosing".

    Mason gave up 5gaa in the game before that and was not good in January.
    He was pretty solid in December... and November.
    He was pretty bad in October.
    He was pretty solid in his time with PHI.
    He was pretty bad in his last four years with CBJ.

    Look at all his stats, here's what we seem to know:
    Mason can be... all over the place.
    He can be quite good.
    He can be quite bad. (as PHI fans witnessed in some key playoff games)

    If you are an NHL GM... is this swing of performance quality... acceptable?

    When PHI was coming off Bryzgalov... the potential to have somebody that could be "quite good"... "at times"... was enough.
    Now - PHI will soon be bringing up a depth of defensive prospects the NHL hasn't witnessed on one team in quite some time.
    Can they afford to have somebody with the potential to be "quite bad"?
    I think the answer there is... no.

    To answer your question...
    I do believe Mason can be "quite good" where expectations are low: Carolina, Las Vegas, Vancouver (until they emerge).
    I do believe that the better teams can't afford to invest in a guy that could go "quite bad" in the playoffs.
    And I think this is why PHI will let Mason walk - they've got a bunch of prospect goalies and one of them is bound to pan out without Mason's low range.
    I also don't see a quality contender investing in Mason.

    Short answer: Yes, he can be quite good - and could be an underrated goalie... if (IMO) he signs with a bad club.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimo Brother View Post
    He's a decent goalie, but he won't exceed expectations until he has a steady defence in front of him and gets a steady amount of starts.
    Last 4 years he got 60, 48, 53 and 54 starts... that is fairly steady, but the defense in front of him was admittedly not great.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericdaoust View Post
    He's had a solid run with the Flyers but is prone to seasons like the one he just had. I don't agree with the "underrated" part though.
    Over the past 5 years he isn't prone to having seasons like this...

    2012-13 .944 save% (7 games)
    2013-14 .917 save% (61 games)
    2014-15 .928 save% (51 games)
    2015-16 .918 save% (54 games)

    He hasn't had a season this bad since he was a Blue Jacket.

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Goaltending is tough to evaluate & forecast.
    One certainly shouldn't go selectively choosing date ranges.

    As soon as I see "from February 9 to...", all I see is "wasn't very good prior to the date I'm choosing".

    Mason gave up 5gaa in the game before that and was not good in January.
    He was pretty solid in December... and November.
    He was pretty bad in October.
    He was pretty solid in his time with PHI.
    He was pretty bad in his last four years with CBJ.

    Look at all his stats, here's what we seem to know:
    Mason can be... all over the place.
    He can be quite good.
    He can be quite bad. (as PHI fans witnessed in some key playoff games)

    If you are an NHL GM... is this swing of performance quality... acceptable?

    When PHI was coming off Bryzgalov... the potential to have somebody that could be "quite good"... "at times"... was enough.
    Now - PHI will soon be bringing up a depth of defensive prospects the NHL hasn't witnessed on one team in quite some time.
    Can they afford to have somebody with the potential to be "quite bad"?
    I think the answer there is... no.

    To answer your question...
    I do believe Mason can be "quite good" where expectations are low: Carolina, Las Vegas, Vancouver (until they emerge).
    I do believe that the better teams can't afford to invest in a guy that could go "quite bad" in the playoffs.
    And I think this is why PHI will let Mason walk - they've got a bunch of prospect goalies and one of them is bound to pan out without Mason's low range.
    I also don't see a quality contender investing in Mason.

    Short answer: Yes, he can be quite good - and could be an underrated goalie... if (IMO) he signs with a bad club.
    Pretty good answer here... I get what you are saying.

    Obviously real life hockey clubs care how good of a real life goalie he can be, while I only care how good of fantasy numbers he can put up. lol

    And yes, I chose "from February 9th" because that is when he started putting up good numbers. But I did so because I believe that was the point when Philly's defense started to play more consistently and stop leaving their goalies out to dry. Mason's .908 save % this year doesn't look all that bad when you look at Neuvirth's .891 GAA on 24 games started. lol

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    He's been credited properly for his fantasy numbers. Usually drafted later after the elite/stable workhorses are gone. No issue with that. He's not underrated.


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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Mason's numbers also remind me a little bit of Tomas Vokoun.
    Like Mason, Vokoun was a .900-.910sv% for his first four full seasons (age 22-26).

    He closed his career with eight straight .917sv% or better seasons, finishing with a partial season in PIT at age 36.
    But... the vibe was still that he just wasn't a goaltender that was going to take a team to the Cup.

    NSH was wise to move on from him and try out their young emerging Rinne.
    FLA was wise to move on from him and try out trading for Luongo.
    WSH was wise to move on from him and go with Braden Holtby.
    http://www.espn.com/nhl/player/stats...7/tomas-vokoun

    There's a point when GMs are just not interested in a .915-.920sv% ish goalie nearing 30yrs old.
    Goalie Purgatory.

    (Mason's a few years younger than Vokoun at same stages... but its just the vibe I'm feeling.)

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    I think Mason is neither overrated or underrated. Based on his tendency to get injured, his streakiness, and his talent, I think he's fairly properly rated. The stats you've provided perfectly identify why he is in the 20-30 range, and not top 10.
    12 Team H2H Keeper, Keep 17, Keepers,
    Roster: 4C, 3RW, 3LW, 5D, 2U, 3B, 3IR, 4G (Start 2)
    Stats: G(3), A(2), +/-, PIM(0.5), PPP(2), SHP(3), GWG(2), SOG (0.1), HITS(0.1), BLKS(0.2), W(3), OTL (1), GA(-1), SV(0.2), SO(3)

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    D: Karlsson, Byfuglien, Josi, Werenski, Giordano, Hamilton
    G: Schneider, Talbot, Vasilevskiy, Andersen
    IR:

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Thanks for the good and quick feedback, guys.


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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    I think there was a time where he was underrated, especially after his first year in Philly. But now I'd say he's seen for what he is - a lower end starter who has the ability to steal games but can go through some really dark stretches. I'm not sure how valuable he will be moving forward - he may have to fight his way back into a starting job at this point in his career.

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    On-topic article that was coincidentally published today:

    HockeyWriters.com: Steve Mason Deserves Better

    http://thehockeywriters.com/steve-ma...serves-better/

    About to read it now.

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Every year there are articles or discussions at some point about how epic Mason actually is, and how he has turned it around this time. Or how part of last year was different for some reason.
    Time after time... but there are always good reasons not to draft him.

    With Mason, its not that he can't be good, its that he is untrustworthy. Great guy to have on you bench, can't carry your team.


    Edit: I've been jaded regarding Mason ever since I drafted him the year after his awesome Blue Jacket year. But he always ends up letting you down.

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    Default Re: Is Steve Mason Underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterByte View Post
    Every year there are articles or discussions at some point about how epic Mason actually is, and how he has turned it around this time. Or how part of last year was different for some reason.
    Time after time... but there are always good reasons not to draft him.

    With Mason, its not that he can't be good, its that he is untrustworthy. Great guy to have on you bench, can't carry your team.


    Edit: I've been jaded regarding Mason ever since I drafted him the year after his awesome Blue Jacket year. But he always ends up letting you down.
    Hah. I'll admit I am presently biased a bit in the other direction because he was great for me in the playoffs this year and pretty much single-handedly secured my advance from the 1st to 2nd round with his road win in Pittsburgh on a Sunday night.

    I am a definite contender next year and trying to pick 3 keepers between:
    Vasilevskiy (1% of salary cap) - Definite Keeper
    Bishop (6% of salary cap)
    Hellebuyck (2% of salary cap)
    Mason (1% of salary cap)

    So that is why I am asking what people think about Mason. Probably can't make a decision until I know where Bishop and Mason go in the offseason and whether Hellebuyck gets some serious competition.

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