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Thread: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    And the way I explained above would be the fastest way to compete.

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Bishop at 5x5. This season cost him a ton of money.
    Damn thats cheap.

    If its just 5 million a season, I'd suspect 4-5 more established teams would be all over Bish before Vegas.
    Vegas has to throw something ridiculous at him to get him there in my opinion.


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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    And the way I explained above would be the fastest way to compete.
    The Knights wouldn't be in Vegas by that time.

    You need to sell tickets, you need a team that can play against other NHL teams. Sure, they will be getting great draft picks and that should be their target. But creating a losing environment on purpose is a bad idea. They're not likely going to be lucky enough to get Connor McDavid in 5 years to be their savior. Their plan can't be "We'll suck for 5 years and then get Connor McDavid and everything will be good!"

    How could you justify keeping the kids in junior/AHL when they're better than the players you have on your NHL team? "Yeah, sorry, we don't want to pay your salary, so go back to junior or something." Those kids would be gone from Vegas. I know they have limited rights once they sign their NHL contract but they could always refuse to sign a contract with Vegas if that's how the franchise is treating its future star players. Video game tactics just don't work with real people.
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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Doesn't Fleury have a NMC which means he has to be protected (or traded to a team on his acceptable list)? I bought low on Fleury going into this season for the sole reason that I assumed he would be traded to a decent team at the trade deadline or after the season ends. Ending up in Vegas wouldn't be good for my goalie stats next season. Its the reason the original team traded him to me to begin with lol.

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by glorybe23 View Post
    Creating a losing environment on purpose in a new expansion city sounds like a terrible business venture. Vegas has to sell tickets, they have to try and be competitive and compete FAST... the NFL is coming.
    They'll sell two to me as I got to see my Leafs play... cheaper than taking a ferry over to Vancouver and seeing them locally.

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    The Knights wouldn't be in Vegas by that time.
    You think the NHL would expand to Vegas and only give them a 3-7 year window to find success? Way to shortsighted and not what the NHL has done in the past.

    Phoenix/Arizona have been around since 96 lol.

    I didn't make it past that one line in your post. Now I'll go back and read the rest.

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    The Knights wouldn't be in Vegas by that time.

    You need to sell tickets, you need a team that can play against other NHL teams. Sure, they will be getting great draft picks and that should be their target. But creating a losing environment on purpose is a bad idea. They're not likely going to be lucky enough to get Connor McDavid in 5 years to be their savior. Their plan can't be "We'll suck for 5 years and then get Connor McDavid and everything will be good!"

    How could you justify keeping the kids in junior/AHL when they're better than the players you have on your NHL team? "Yeah, sorry, we don't want to pay your salary, so go back to junior or something." Those kids would be gone from Vegas. I know they have limited rights once they sign their NHL contract but they could always refuse to sign a contract with Vegas if that's how the franchise is treating its future star players. Video game tactics just don't work with real people.
    So much I disagree with.

    First I'll start by saying they'll sell tickets. That won't be an issue. Whether people attend or not is a different thing. Sales will be supported by the Casinos. Vegas wouldn't have been an option otherwise.

    Next, I don't mean create a losing environment on purpose. But this team is going to be shit for a long time. Why fight it? Everyone going into it knows this team will be a work in progress. Even us stupid fans know that.

    After this upcoming year, the Knights will be a thing of the past. Their attendance is going to be pretty low after it's first year honeymoon stage. The team will be fighting for lottery picks for the upcoming years.

    One veteran goalie is going to fix the losing environment? I don't care how many vets you have on the team, they won't fix the losing environment. The goal is going to be making progress with your rookies. Developing your draft picks. The Knights are going to be a shit show.


    And while the Knights are a shit show, your prospects are no where near the team. Not yet anyways. You don't think Nylander, Brown, Hyman and maybe Marner deserved to be Leafs last year? How could the Leafs justify playing Holland, Boyes, Greening, Lupul, Spaling....etc, over all those guys? Because they were protecting them from a losing environment. Exactly what the Knights should do.

    Create a winning environment with youth in your AHL team first. Than bring that up to the NHL when the time is right.

    Video game tactics? What?

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    So much I disagree with.

    First I'll start by saying they'll sell tickets. That won't be an issue. Whether people attend or not is a different thing. Sales will be supported by the Casinos. Vegas wouldn't have been an option otherwise.

    Next, I don't mean create a losing environment on purpose. But this team is going to be shit for a long time. Why fight it? Everyone going into it knows this team will be a work in progress. Even us stupid fans know that.

    After this upcoming year, the Knights will be a thing of the past. Their attendance is going to be pretty low after it's first year honeymoon stage. The team will be fighting for lottery picks for the upcoming years.

    One veteran goalie is going to fix the losing environment? I don't care how many vets you have on the team, they won't fix the losing environment. The goal is going to be making progress with your rookies. Developing your draft picks. The Knights are going to be a shit show.


    And while the Knights are a shit show, your prospects are no where near the team. Not yet anyways. You don't think Nylander, Brown, Hyman and maybe Marner deserved to be Leafs last year? How could the Leafs justify playing Holland, Boyes, Greening, Lupul, Spaling....etc, over all those guys? Because they were protecting them from a losing environment. Exactly what the Knights should do.

    Create a winning environment with youth in your AHL team first. Than bring that up to the NHL when the time is right.

    Video game tactics? What?
    Nylander maybe deserved to be on that team last season but the injury made it easy to keep him down. But even then, they couldn't do it for a full season. You think they could have kept those kids down for 4 years while they lose on purpose? You think Nylander wouldn't be back in Europe if they tried that?

    You need veteran players to protect the younger guys. With your strategy, they'd only have some players who don't deserve to be in the NHL playing for them. How is that a team? And who exactly is going to give them draft picks or prospects for those players?

    I never said one goalie would fix the problem but it's the easiest position to fix. You're not going to find a #1C or #1D from the expansion draft. Even if you find one from the entry draft, that's going to take 3-4 years to materialize. You can find a good #1G from the expansion draft, so fix that hole and focus on the rest after that.

    By video game tactics I meant keeping young players in the AHL for years even when they're ready. That doesn't work in real life. Maybe you can do it for part of a season or maybe even a full season, you can't do it for years. If they tried keeping their youngsters down for no good reason, other prospects wouldn't sign a contract with them anymore. And the ones that signed a contract would leave after ELC. They're under no obligation to re-sign with the team. They can go play in Europe if needed. Players just wouldn't stand for that kind of behavior from a team, no matter how well it works in a video game.
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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    I disagree.

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    ...
    I never said one goalie would fix the problem but it's the easiest position to fix. You're not going to find a #1C or #1D from the expansion draft. Even if you find one from the entry draft, that's going to take 3-4 years to materialize. You can find a good #1G from the expansion draft, so fix that hole and focus on the rest after that.
    ...
    ??? You're losing me here, J-P.

    Wasn't this^ the exact reason that I was saying that Vegas would be wise to address their goaltending needs in the expansion draft and focus on skaters in free-agency? You seemed to be advocating the exact opposite earlier in the thread.

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Bishop or Fleury

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    ??? You're losing me here, J-P.

    Wasn't this^ the exact reason that I was saying that Vegas would be wise to address their goaltending needs in the expansion draft and focus on skaters in free-agency? You seemed to be advocating the exact opposite earlier in the thread.

    Vegas has a negotiating period with free agents before they expansion draft. If they can sign any of them, they will count as a player taken in the expansion draft. So if they sign Bishop before the expansion draft, they can't select another player from the Kings. That's what I'm advocating them to do - sign a FA goalie during that time. If that fails, then choose a goalie who is under contract. I think Bishop is the best available player for them.
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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    Vegas has a negotiating period with free agents before they expansion draft. If they can sign any of them, they will count as a player taken in the expansion draft. So if they sign Bishop before the expansion draft, they can't select another player from the Kings. That's what I'm advocating them to do - sign a FA goalie during that time. If that fails, then choose a goalie who is under contract. I think Bishop is the best available player for them.
    This^ is not "finding a #1 goalie in the expansion draft" (as you responded to Mr. Guru), rather this is "signing a #1 goalie as a FA prior to the expansion draft", which is not the same thing.

    If they sign FAs for positions that they could have filled as well (or almost as well) using expansion picks instead, then that is just bad strategy. They'll just end up wasting a couple of those picks on marginal skaters.

    Bishop or Mason are not going to nail butts to those seats, I'm sorry. They'll just need to rely on expansion goodwill in their new city for that. If that won't suffice, then they probably had no business being awarded a franchise in the first place.
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    LW: Forsberg, Ehlers (RW), A. Lee, Tatar (RW)
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    D: Subban, Yandle, Werenski
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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    After Mason's comments today, I could see him signing with Vegas as a FA prior to expansion:
    http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphi...t-platoon-role

    Its a sure fire way to not be in a timeshare situation IMO.

    There's no way Bishop signs till after July 1st.


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    LW(3): Gaudreau, Kreider, Pacioretty,
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    F(3): Namestnikov, Zajac, N.Foligno
    D(6): Shattenkirk, Jones, Krug, Leddy, Ellis, Chara
    G(1): Bishop [+ Elliott]
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    Farm: N.Schmaltz (LW), D.Shore (LW), Grimaldi (C), Vatrano (LW), Blandisi (LW), Myers (D), Leipsic (LW), Husso (G), Wood (D), Wallmark (C)

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    Default Re: Prediction: Vegas starting goalie?

    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    This^ is not "finding a #1 goalie in the expansion draft" (as you responded to Mr. Guru), rather this is "signing a #1 goalie as a FA prior to the expansion draft", which is not the same thing.

    If they sign FAs for positions that they could have filled as well (or almost as well) using expansion picks instead, then that is just bad strategy. They'll just end up wasting a couple of those picks on marginal skaters.

    Bishop or Mason are not going to nail butts to those seats, I'm sorry. They'll just need to rely on expansion goodwill in their new city for that. If that won't suffice, then they probably had no business being awarded a franchise in the first place.
    Officially, it counts as one of their expansion draft selections and they can't select anyone else from that team, so yeah, to me that's finding a guy from the expansion draft. But I don't also understand why we'd need to split hairs about something like this.

    I also don't see any downside with that strategy. The Kings for example aren't exposing anyone very interesting, so not a big loss if they take Bishop.

    Playing competitive hockey puts butts on the seats and allows to you add more good players to your team. No player wants to join a team that's not even NHL quality. How difficult was it for Edmonton to add free agents before McDavid? Pretty much every player had Edmonton on their NTC as well. Of course you could also wait 15-20 years for the next McDavid and hope he lands on your team... But I wouldn't count on that.

    They won't be a playoff team but they need to play competitive hockey. Having a trust-worthy #1G is the first step towards that. That's my opinion, you could have a different opinion. Nothing wrong with that.
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    22 pro, 30 ML players / G,A,+/-,PPP,SHP,SOG,Hit,Blk,PIM,FO%, W,Sv,SV%,GAA,SHO

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    23 pro, 27 ML players / G,A,PPP,SHP,SOG,Hit,Blk,PIM,FOW,TOI-SH,Tk(D) / W,Sv,Sa,SV%,GAA,SHO

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