Werenski or Klingberg, pts only ?

[berni67]

Wich one pts only, keeper ?

[Eskimo Brother]

Klingberg until Werenski plays with Benn and Seguin.

[Reuben]

^^ yup.

[als_revenge]

Klingberg for me too. His situation is better and his competition is less.

[lucafen4]

Klingberg for me too. His situation is better and his competition is less.

I agree with Klingberg until the day it's not Klingberg, but I can't agree his competition is less - Honka & Lindell are knocking. Columbus, there's nobody else.

[bnet]

Short-term, Klingberg. Gets to play tons and has that juicy 1st pp assignment with Benn and Sequin.

Long-term, Werenski. Nothing coming up the pipeline in Columbus who can challenge him, Jones is a top flight D, but is more well rounded and not an offensive dynamo like Werenski.

I like Columbus going forward as well, ton of young talent to infuse their club with. Dallas is starting to stagnate a bit. None of their young guys look like top end forward prospects, except possibly Nichuskin, but who knows what will come of that. Plus Klingberg has Honka looking to take his spot and Honka has the talent/skills to perhaps do so in a couple of years.

Werenski for one more reason as well, shots shots shots!! Kid shoots like a maniac, might finish the year with 200 shots, for a D that's a ton of shots, for a rookie D that's even crazier. Klingberg doesn't shoot the puck nearly that much.

[StuntMan12]

I'll take Werenski thank you. Guy is incredibly talented - super slick skating and I truly believe he is just scratching the surface of his potential. Werenski is producing with lesser skilled line mates. Bottom line I'll take the more talented player over someone whos strictly in a better situation (at the time being).

Not trying to make Klingberg out to be a complete plug but this decision FOR ME is very easy. I own Klingberg in a pts keeper and if I was offered Werenski for him I would be very happy and insta jam the accept buttom over and over.

[forsbergfan]

I agree with bnet. klingberg short term, werenski long term. honka's gonna give klingberg a run for his money. werenski is gonna be columbus' PP QB for the future and I think is much more talented.

[Nehithaw]

I'll take Werenski thank you. Guy is incredibly talented - super slick skating and I truly believe he is just scratching the surface of his potential. Werenski is producing with lesser skilled line mates. Bottom line I'll take the more talented player over someone whos strictly in a better situation (at the time being).

Not trying to make Klingberg out to be a complete plug but this decision FOR ME is very easy. I own Klingberg in a pts keeper and if I was offered Werenski for him I would be very happy and insta jam the accept buttom over and over.

I concur.

Werenski is the more talented player and should be relied upon more to produce offense for his team. Like the others have said, theere are others competing with Klingberg for top PP time.

Werenski is an exceptional talent that doesn't come along very often. He has been highly touted everywhere he's played and produced.

[STONE.]

I'd say Klingberg.
Everything has gone wrong for Dallas this year and Klingberg has 40 points.
Everything has gone right for Columbus this year (including a bunch of 8-10 goal games) and Werenski has 39.
When things normalize, I bet Klingberg outpoints Werenski.
They're both still young.

[bnet]

Dallas 188 GF
Columbus 207 GF

Klingberg - Played 65 games, averaging 23:29 ice time, 3:27 on the PP. 40 points, 110 shots with a shot% of 10%, abnormally high for most defensemen. Dallas has Sequin and Benn, but they don't have a lot of other top end talent. Spezza is getting older, Hudler was a bad signing, Sharp isn't as effective as he used to be. Their young guys are good, but none of them look like gamebreakers, except perhaps for Nichuskin, but he bolted to KHL for now. Klingberg also has to worry about Honka stealing time from him, if not his spot on 1st pp unit potentially.

Werenski - Played 65 games, averaging 21:07 ice time, 2:49 on the pp and is already being used somewhat on the pk. I can see his average ice time and pp time go up over the next couple of years, where Klingberg will, at best, stay where he is now. Has 39 points, 162 SOG with a shot% of 5.6%, more then a sustainable rate for a highly skilled defenseman on a 1st unit pp.
Columbus doesn't have the high end players in Benn and Sequin, but they have a lot more depth and more young prospects with high upside. PLD, Bjorkstrand, Milano (not as high as previous two, but could be a good 2nd liner) to go along with Wennberg, Atkinson, Saad, Foligno. Columbus has no prospect D that can challenge Werenski, Jones is great, but Werenski has better offensive instincts. He is also 19 years old playing in his first season at the NHL level. Klingberg is great, but Werenski is great already and is only 19 on a team that will likely only be getting better in the next couple of years.

[Crazy Joe Davola]

Klingberg for me as well.

He's one of the few defenders in the game with legit 60+ point upside. I don't feel the same about Werenski despite his amazing skill set and terrific rookie campaign.

As others have said, even in a year where most everything has gone wrong in Big D, Klingberg is still going to push for 50 points. He's too good to be held back long and being able to make plays with Seguin and Benn just juices it up further.

All that said, I'd love to get my hands on Werenski as he can be a solid 45-50 point guy for years.

[Nehithaw]

Dallas 188 GF
Columbus 207 GF

Klingberg - Played 65 games, averaging 23:29 ice time, 3:27 on the PP. 40 points, 110 shots with a shot% of 10%, abnormally high for most defensemen. Dallas has Sequin and Benn, but they don't have a lot of other top end talent. Spezza is getting older, Hudler was a bad signing, Sharp isn't as effective as he used to be. Their young guys are good, but none of them look like gamebreakers, except perhaps for Nichuskin, but he bolted to KHL for now. Klingberg also has to worry about Honka stealing time from him, if not his spot on 1st pp unit potentially.

Werenski - Played 65 games, averaging 21:07 ice time, 2:49 on the pp and is already being used somewhat on the pk. I can see his average ice time and pp time go up over the next couple of years, where Klingberg will, at best, stay where he is now. Has 39 points, 162 SOG with a shot% of 5.6%, more then a sustainable rate for a highly skilled defenseman on a 1st unit pp.
Columbus doesn't have the high end players in Benn and Sequin, but they have a lot more depth and more young prospects with high upside. PLD, Bjorkstrand, Milano (not as high as previous two, but could be a good 2nd liner) to go along with Wennberg, Atkinson, Saad, Foligno. Columbus has no prospect D that can challenge Werenski, Jones is great, but Werenski has better offensive instincts. He is also 19 years old playing in his first season at the NHL level. Klingberg is great, but Werenski is great already and is only 19 on a team that will likely only be getting better in the next couple of years.

This right here is gold ladies and gentlemen. Well researched, well-written, and a lot of effort put into it. I predict great things for this bnet in our community if this is an example of what we're going to get. He made a case for both sides and presented it without bias for one or the other. This one of the best posts I've seen around here in a long time. Excellent stuff!

I hear people saying that Klingberg did well in a season Dallas isn't doing too well - Did anybody consider that they didn't do as well because their best defenseman didn't do so well defensively?

They're basically tied in points and Werenski is doing it as a 19-year old ROOKIE. I often hear that people would rather go for the proven producer over the prospect - In this case it might be that it is easier to say one would pick Klingberg because it is the easy pick - can't go too wrong with what has already been proven, right? This is too easy. I'll go out on the limb, as it were, and go for the proven-producing-prospect that is tied in points with the 5th ranked defenseman in fantasy hockey (Dobber rankings) - and doing it as a 19 year-old rookie, no less.

[Crazy Joe Davola]

That is a fantastic post from bnet.

I will play devil's advocate, because it's fun and I actually feel like Klingberg has higher offensive tools than Werenski. Id like to preface this by saying that Werenski is awesome. I really, really like him in real life and fantasy.

Now, that said...

Klingberg is older and producing slightly more points than ZW while on a down year but with likely unsustainable conversion rates.

This season, Klingberg has but 14 PPP's compared to 20 for Werenski. Last season Dallas was was the fourth best power play team - due in large part to a strong year by JK. He had 23 PPP's that year. 2015-16 saw CBJ as the 21st ranked PP. Obviously Werenski wasn't there to help or hinder it, but just for knowledge sake.

This season, CBJ was the top ranked unit for much of the year and has fallen to 7th right now. Of Werenski's 20 PPPs, he has but four in his last 24 games as their team's output has finally hit the proverbial wall that it was destined to hit.

If I was to ask you which top unit would have a better year in 2017-18, would you choose the one with Seguin, Benn, Klingberg or Atkinson, Wennberg and Werenski? I know which I would choose, but theres a reason they play the games.

I'm going to stick with my estimation that Werenski can be a 50 point defender on a lot of years. He's that good. He's also so good that his PK and defensive zone start time will increase and that will inevitably take something away from his offense at 5v5, whereas Klingberg is Dallas offense from the back end.

Regarding Honka breathing down his neck, I like Honka as well, but I don't see him pushing Klingberg aside anytime soon. They're similar players but JK has proven a lot and has room for more development. Plus he's locked up on a great contract for a lot of years.

For a historical perspective: Klingberg recorded 58 points in 76 games as a 23 year old sophomore last year. That's a 63 point pace and he did while converting on 5.8 percent of his shots. Since the lockout in 2003-04, 47 times has that total been matched or surpassed (58 points). Of those players, only EK (a few times), Doughty in 09-10, Phaneuf in 07-08 and Green 08-09 and 09-10 were as old or younger than Klingberg was when he did it.

He's in rare company and is one of maybe six defenders who can lay claim to legitimate, 60-plus point upside.

Now if Werenski pops 58 or so in the next couple of seasons, I'll definitely change my tune. But as it stands, I like Klingberg a shade more and I like his surrounding talent better as well.

[Nehithaw]

"I often hear that people would rather go for the proven producer over the prospect - In this case it might be that it is easier to say one would pick Klingberg because it is the easy pick - can't go too wrong with what has already been proven, right?"

Now if Werenski pops 58 or so in the next couple of seasons, I'll definitely change my tune. But as it stands, I like Klingberg a shade more and I like his surrounding talent better as well.

This is exactly what I was saying.

I liken Klingberg's situation to Mike Green's a few years ago when he played for Washington - Ovechkin (Benn?) and Backstrom (Seguin?) were among the top scorers in the league every year. Green is a decent player on his own, but do you really think that he would have gotten that many points if it weren't for Ovechkin and Backstrom? Switch the names around and this question could pertain to Klingberg.

Obviously, the same could be said about Werenski - he would not be doing as well as he is if his forwards were not producing. My claim is that Werenski relies less on others for his production and he should continue to produce like he is, whereas Klingberg would lose a lot of value if he were to be separated from Seguin and Benn.

For what it's worth... Esa Lindell has seen 63 percent of Dallas' power-play time in the last 3 games, according to FrozenPool. Yeah, I know that is small sample-size but it is what it is.