Pavalec Experiment Over Yet?

[ericdaoust]

I don't think they can risk losing him on waivers as he is the goalie they have to protect for the expansion draft. Helly doesn't count and Pavs is a ufa.

There are so many ways to take care of that problem even in a "doomsday" scenario. There's going to be so much movement before the draft as teams game the system to protect themselves. They'll be fine either way.

[Sulla]

Don't forget Helly hit a wall last season also... Not a pattern but as I've commented in threads on Allen etc moving from a split or spot starts to full time is hard for almost every goalie

[BreadManPanarin]

Don't forget Helly hit a wall last season also... Not a pattern but as I've commented in threads on Allen etc moving from a split or spot starts to full time is hard for almost every goalie

So wouldn't that be a good argument for getting the hard part over with now so that he is used to it and ready to go next season?

I realize they want to make the playoffs, but as I said before I don't think Pavelec gives them a clear advantage over Hellebuyck in that regard anyways. I'd rather them kill two birds with one stone by trying to ride Helly to the playoffs now AND have him gain experience for next year.

[JHouly]

Maybe Winnipeg D is not great.

Maybe Maurice is not a good defensive coach.

Maybe Hellebuyck is just not ready to take the #1 job yet.

Maybe Hellebuyck is just not a real #1 goalie.

Maybe all of the above.

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Maybe Winnipeg D is not great.

Maybe Maurice is not a good defensive coach.

Maybe Hellebuyck is just not ready to take the #1 job yet.

Maybe Hellebuyck is just not a real #1 goalie.

Maybe all of the above.

[hockeyrobot]

Maybe Winnipeg D is not great.

Maybe Maurice is not a good defensive coach.

Maybe Hellebuyck is just not ready to take the #1 job yet.

Maybe Hellebuyck is just not a real #1 goalie.

Maybe all of the above.

If there were an A and B only option to that multiple choice question I would choose that one.

[ericdaoust]

I realize they want to make the playoffs, but as I said before I don't think Pavelec gives them a clear advantage over Hellebuyck in that regard anyways. I'd rather them kill two birds with one stone by trying to ride Helly to the playoffs now AND have him gain experience for next year.

I get the experience part but if a guy is being overwhelmed then sticking to him blindly won't help. It's a case by case thing.

[BreadManPanarin]

I get the experience part but if a guy is being overwhelmed then sticking to him blindly won't help. It's a case by case thing.

In this case i would argue that sitting him for a couple of games was a good choice. However, continuing to sit him and playing a sub-par goalie like Pavelec in back-to-back games rather than giving him another shot seems asinine to me.

[Instant Karma]

I mean, Helly did put up a 28 save shut out right before his two games that he got pulled early in. Vasilevskiy recently had a much more prolonged run of just god awful results and looked like his confidence was utterly shot. Now he has 1.84 GAA and .938 save % over his last 4 games. If your young supposedly future stud goalie is able to have his psyche rocked so hard that it causes permanent damage if you continue to put him out there, then he probably isn't a future stud goalie! If they had a veteran option that was clearly better than Hellebuyck then I'd say go for it... but Pavelec isn't that guy. He has a career save% of .907 for God sakes. Hellebuyck's is .912 and he is 23 years old. Let him work through adversity this season so that next season he is ready to be the guy. This is so clear cut and obvious to me, so that means I am probably just an idiot.

Well, the situation isn't the same with Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck. I believe Pavelec was the presumed starter in the preseason, and when he was sent down on the eve of the season starting I think most of us reacted to that as a bold stroke.

I was much less surprised that they brought Pavs back up. Of course, if he was really the answer, he likely wouldn't have been sent down in the first place, right?

It's easy for us to say "F*** it. Throw Helle in the deep end, and if he drowns he drowns." It's an abstract situation for us. But these are actual people, not superheroes. I would think that an organization that clearly has Helle in their long-term plans aren't going to be quite so cavalier about his development.

I expect they don't have a problem with bringing up Pavelec and letting him run with it for a bit. If he does great, awesome. It both stops the bleeding and increases possible trade value. If it doesn't work out, then they're no worse off than they were and he took a few bullets that your tender of the future didn't have to.

[BreadManPanarin]

Well, the situation isn't the same with Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck. I believe Pavelec was the presumed starter in the preseason, and when he was sent down on the eve of the season starting I think most of us reacted to that as a bold stroke.

I was much less surprised that they brought Pavs back up. Of course, if he was really the answer, he likely wouldn't have been sent down in the first place, right?

It's easy for us to say "F*** it. Throw Helle in the deep end, and if he drowns he drowns." It's an abstract situation for us. But these are actual people, not superheroes. I would think that an organization that clearly has Helle in their long-term plans aren't going to be quite so cavalier about his development.

I expect they don't have a problem with bringing up Pavelec and letting him run with it for a bit. If he does great, awesome. It both stops the bleeding and increases possible trade value. If it doesn't work out, then they're no worse off than they were and he took a few bullets that your tender of the future didn't have to.

Perhaps I communicated poorly. All I meant was that now that Pavelec has not shown to be a significantly better answer, I hope that they give Hellebuyck a couple of starts again. The first 3 games that Pavelec got I didn't mind that much, but when he was confirmed for the back-to-back start it seemed a bit ridiculous to me, given the mediocre results he had been getting. I am not in the Jets' building, so I don't know if they perhaps had a perfectly valid reason for not giving Helly another start yet. #FrustratedFantasyOwner,That'sAll

[Axeman33]

Hellebuyck has been sub par most of the season so I dont understand why you think he is any better for the Jets over Pavelec.

At least Pavelec has shown he can help them get into the playoffs. I have no issue rolling him in B2B games.

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Hellebuyck has been sub par most of the season so I dont understand why you think he is any better for the Jets over Pavelec.

At least Pavelec has shown he can help them get into the playoffs. I have no issue rolling him in B2B games.

[BreadManPanarin]

Hellebuyck has been sub par most of the season so I dont understand why you think he is any better for the Jets over Pavelec.

At least Pavelec has shown he can help them get into the playoffs. I have no issue rolling him in B2B games.

I'll admit, I base my opinion only on two factors:
1. Hellebuyck having better career numbers than Pavelec
2. Hellebuyck having better numbers than Pavelec for this season (small sample size for Pavelec so far obviously)

In fact, Hellebuyck's numbers in this sub-par season (2.82 GAA, .907 save%) are marginally better than Pavelec's career numbers! (2.86 GAA, .907 save%)

Pavelec took the Jets to the playoffs one time ('14-15) and they got swept by Anaheim with Pavelec putting up a 3.74 GAA and .891 save% in that series. Color me not impressed.

I think my problem is that I give way too much credit to statistics, and I am having trouble finding any statistical reason why Pavelec would seem to be a better choice. I am sure there are probably one or two real life hockey reasons that are not statistics based, its just that those reasons elude me.

Edit: I base my opinion on three factors... the third and probably most influential being that I own Hellebuyck.

[stevegamer]

I think it's likely Pavelec can help the Jets make the playoffs, because there's a good chance he will be better than Hutchinson at least. Pavelec has been a better goalie than Hutchinson in the seasons they've been together on the Jets.

However, it's at the point they they need to throw something against the wall and see if it sticks. If they end up with a tandem of Pavelec & Hellebuyck with Hutchinson sitting out as the third wheel, that will be fine. He's not on the roster because he's a good goalie, he's there because he's able to be taken in the expansion draft.

As long as they can manage the skater roster spots, it will work.

[tripel]

Im still POd b/c if you watched the Habs game, the 3rd goal -- the one that got his yanked -- was just atrocious D. Two jets in the corner punted the puck into the slot so that Pleckanec could get a free point blaank goal. How do you stop that? Then he's yanked and the next game (which i didnt see) he was also yanked early. I think Maurice needs to go. The record on this team for the talent they have is the worst in the NHL.

[Axeman33]

Breadman. I think you are basing your opinion primarily due to you owning him in fantasy hockey, not as a 3rd option.

The Jets arent playing fantasy hockey and arent worried about fantasy hockey. They are trying to win actual games and neither Hellebuyck or Hutchinson have been very good at doing that thus far. If they were they wouldnt have brought Pavelec back up. One has to assume they were ready to leave him there all season until his contract expired.

I dont blame Maurice or Chevy for this situation. Bith kuds were handed the keys and they couldnt keep the car running. Thats as much on them as anyone else if not more.

Pavelec is there to help push them to the playoffs and management feels the two kids arent capable yet.

Your bias is based on fantasy. The Jets need to win real games. Dont worry though, your fantasy team has a good future goalie. Its just obvious that the future isnt today.

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Breadman. I think you are basing your opinion primarily due to you owning him in fantasy hockey, not as a 3rd option.

The Jets arent playing fantasy hockey and arent worried about fantasy hockey. They are trying to win actual games and neither Hellebuyck or Hutchinson have been very good at doing that thus far. If they were they wouldnt have brought Pavelec back up. One has to assume they were ready to leave him there all season until his contract expired.

I dont blame Maurice or Chevy for this situation. Bith kuds were handed the keys and they couldnt keep the car running. Thats as much on them as anyone else if not more.

Pavelec is there to help push them to the playoffs and management feels the two kids arent capable yet.

Your bias is based on fantasy. The Jets need to win real games. Dont worry though, your fantasy team has a good future goalie. Its just obvious that the future isnt today.

[BreadManPanarin]

Breadman. I think you are basing your opinion primarily due to you owning him in fantasy hockey, not as a 3rd option.

.....

Your bias is based on fantasy. The Jets need to win real games. Dont worry though, your fantasy team has a good future goalie. Its just obvious that the future isnt today.

Yeah, I feel you man. I admitted as much when I said "the third and probably most influential being that I own Hellebuyck". That being said, there's no way anyone can convince me that Pavelec is a better goalie than Hellebuyck in the here and now, unless the stats start to reflect it. I'm just too much of a stubborn stat-head. lol

If Pavelec keeps getting leash and brings his GAA and Save % down to be a better level than Hellebuyck was able to manage so far this year, then I will surrender the point. Until then, I believe that the goalie who gives up less goals and saves a higher percent of shots always gives the team its best chance to win. I'm not saying I am right, and this isn't a point of argument. Just expressing my opinion.