Why wouldn't the Stars and Isles swap goalies?

[rataylor22]

Man quoting is not working on this website lately.

If "Garth Snow isn't a good GM" is the reason then you also must say Jim Nill isn't a good GM. If that's how you feel, then fine, but it takes two parties to make a trade.

Rizzee, in response to you, if Dallas is going to trade for a goalie, then their end game is to win in the playoffs. Which Halak probably doesn't help you do. Everyone looks to the run he had with Montreal, but he's been basically brutal in the playoffs ever since. If you're going to give up assets to improve your goaltending, then give up assets and IMPROVE your goaltending. They'll be aiming for Bishop or Fleury. And in the last hour of the trade deadline the can circle back on Halak maybe, if they feel like it. But there's no evidence that Halak improves their current goaltending situation, even marginally.

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Man quoting is not working on this website lately.

If "Garth Snow isn't a good GM" is the reason then you also must say Jim Nill isn't a good GM. If that's how you feel, then fine, but it takes two parties to make a trade.

Rizzee, in response to you, if Dallas is going to trade for a goalie, then their end game is to win in the playoffs. Which Halak probably doesn't help you do. Everyone looks to the run he had with Montreal, but he's been basically brutal in the playoffs ever since. If you're going to give up assets to improve your goaltending, then give up assets and IMPROVE your goaltending. They'll be aiming for Bishop or Fleury. And in the last hour of the trade deadline the can circle back on Halak maybe, if they feel like it. But there's no evidence that Halak improves their current goaltending situation, even marginally.

[RizzeeDizzee]

Rizzee, in response to you, if Dallas is going to trade for a goalie, then their end game is to win in the playoffs. Which Halak probably doesn't help you do. Everyone looks to the run he had with Montreal, but he's been basically brutal in the playoffs ever since.

Since that run with Montreal, he's appeared in 9 playoff games, faced 261 collective shots and allowed 19 collective goals. That's basically just over a 2.00 GAA and a .927 SV%. I'm not trying to put a bow on a pig, but I do feel like they'd be wiser to march into the playoffs with Halak and one of Niemi/Lehtonen rather than their current tandem.

[rataylor22]

Since that run with Montreal, he's appeared in 9 playoff games, faced 261 collective shots and allowed 19 collective goals. That's basically just over a 2.00 GAA and a .927 SV%. I'm not trying to put a bow on a pig, but I do feel like they'd be wiser to march into the playoffs with Halak and one of Niemi/Lehtonen rather than their current tandem.

Sure, which kind've goes to the next point I made. They're holding out for Fleury/Bishop right now. It's not like the goalie market is that hot. Worst case scenario, they can swing back to Halak in the final deadline hours if it comes to that, but for now why not hold out for the bigger fish?

[RizzeeDizzee]

Sure, which kind've goes to the next point I made. They're holding out for Fleury/Bishop right now. It's not like the goalie market is that hot. Worst case scenario, they can swing back to Halak in the final deadline hours if it comes to that, but for now why not hold out for the bigger fish?

I guess there's little risk to them in Halak landing elsewhere right away, especially given what's happened with Pavelec. What's unique here is they could possibly get a guy like Halak without losing nearly the kind of assets they'd need in order to land Fleury or Bishop, plus might be able to lose one of the heads of their own two-headed monster in the process.

[stevegamer]

Man quoting is not working on this website lately.

If "Garth Snow isn't a good GM" is the reason then you also must say Jim Nill isn't a good GM. If that's how you feel, then fine, but it takes two parties to make a trade.

Rizzee, in response to you, if Dallas is going to trade for a goalie, then their end game is to win in the playoffs. Which Halak probably doesn't help you do. Everyone looks to the run he had with Montreal, but he's been basically brutal in the playoffs ever since. If you're going to give up assets to improve your goaltending, then give up assets and IMPROVE your goaltending. They'll be aiming for Bishop or Fleury. And in the last hour of the trade deadline the can circle back on Halak maybe, if they feel like it. But there's no evidence that Halak improves their current goaltending situation, even marginally.

To help us through this awful quoting and double-posting time, I am manually quoting folks using (quote) and (/quote) around the text I want to quote- replace the parenthesis with brackets, and it works. It loses the original poster time/date info, though. Also clicking "Stay on Page", then refreshing the page seems to post with no duplicate.

I realize this was aimed at my post of "Partly because Garth Snow isn't a good GM." It does take two to trade, but it only takes one to not trade, or not even investigate a trade. So the premise that "If there is no deal with the Islanders and Garth Snow isn't a good GM means Jim Nill isn't a good GM" is false.

Trade T happens if parties I & S agree. If either or both disagree, there is no deal. So it can rely on one side. We've all seen deals posted where one team offers another team way too much for sombody, and the other team refuses it, for some reason.

I do see the rationale you posted for holding out for Bishop or Fleury, but there's no guarantee that either of those guys will be available, nor that Halak will still be around. I think it comes down to deciding if you think Halak is an upgrade or not on the Dallas pairing. I think so, but he's a small upgrade.

[lucafen4]

An awful lot of debate on this when the answer is pretty obvious. They wouldn't trade because it does nothing to make either team better. So why bother?

trading terrible for really bad doesn't usually make for a good decision. Might as well ride the status quo - NYI, have been a tad better as of late - and wait for a better option to come along.

[Instant Karma]

I expect that, despite whatever they might claim in the media, Nill likely rues his decision to sign Niemi. He'd have to be nucking futs to double-down on that and acquire yet another struggling and overpaid goalie.

I don't think any of these three goalies require a change of scenery to cure their ills, unless it's to another league.

[rataylor22]

To help us through this awful quoting and double-posting time, I am manually quoting folks using (quote) and (/quote) around the text I want to quote- replace the parenthesis with brackets, and it works. It loses the original poster time/date info, though. Also clicking "Stay on Page", then refreshing the page seems to post with no duplicate.

I realize this was aimed at my post of "Partly because Garth Snow isn't a good GM." It does take two to trade, but it only takes one to not trade, or not even investigate a trade. So the premise that "If there is no deal with the Islanders and Garth Snow isn't a good GM means Jim Nill isn't a good GM" is false.

Trade T happens if parties I & S agree. If either or both disagree, there is no deal. So it can rely on one side. We've all seen deals posted where one team offers another team way too much for sombody, and the other team refuses it, for some reason.

I do see the rationale you posted for holding out for Bishop or Fleury, but there's no guarantee that either of those guys will be available, nor that Halak will still be around. I think it comes down to deciding if you think Halak is an upgrade or not on the Dallas pairing. I think so, but he's a small upgrade.

So is a small upgrade worth a tangible asset? From Nill's perspective, would you trade Niemi and the rights to Nichuskin for Halak? Is it worth what he provides? If you're Snow, why would you take a worthless asset for a Halak AND take significant salary back, with an additional year on the contract? It really doesn't make any sense. What is the asset coming back form Dallas where you are Garth Snow and think "yes, that is now worth it for me"? I'd think the correct answer is too good of an asset for Jim Nill to pay for a small upgrade.

[RizzeeDizzee]

I guess my hang-up is I don't see Niemi and Halak as equal. Sure, Halak has looked hella bad this season, but not only has he been sharing starts, but also has received less practice time due to NYI carrying three goalies. Remember how bad everyone said Halak's 2015-16 was? Turns out his SV% was 18th among goalies with 30+ starts (Niemi's was 39th) and his GAA was 10th (Niemi's was 29th).

Sure - Halak would be seen by many as at best a lateral move, and as was noted it only takes on GM for a trade not to happen. But I think Dallas could benefit from this, and, as importantly, could find a way to "sell" it both to Snow and their fanbase.

[rataylor22]

I guess my hang-up is I don't see Niemi and Halak as equal. Sure, Halak has looked hella bad this season, but not only has he been sharing starts, but also has received less practice time due to NYI carrying three goalies. Remember how bad everyone said Halak's 2015-16 was? Turns out his SV% was 18th among goalies with 30+ starts (Niemi's was 39th) and his GAA was 10th (Niemi's was 29th).

Sure - Halak would be seen by many as at best a lateral move, and as was noted it only takes on GM for a trade not to happen. But I think Dallas could benefit from this, and, as importantly, could find a way to "sell" it both to Snow and their fanbase.

Sure. So what asset is coming back? Like I said. Would you do Niemi and Nichuskin for Halak? Would you do that if you're Dallas? Would you do that if you're NYI?

[RizzeeDizzee]

Sure. So what asset is coming back? Like I said. Would you do Niemi and Nichuskin for Halak? Would you do that if you're Dallas? Would you do that if you're NYI?

I'm bad at trade machines, but why not a straight up deal with a kicker being an escalating pick depending on how far Dallas advances in the playoffs? Nich is also something to consider.

[rataylor22]

I'm bad at trade machines, but why not a straight up deal with a kicker being an escalating pick depending on how far Dallas advances in the playoffs? Nich is also something to consider.

Doesn't feel like enough of a return for the Islanders, considering Niemi has one more year on his contract after this. That's what I mean. To take that contract on for another year you have to be getting tangible value back.

[RizzeeDizzee]

Doesn't feel like enough of a return for the Islanders, considering Niemi has one more year on his contract after this. That's what I mean. To take that contract on for another year you have to be getting tangible value back.

They get to lose Halak, who also has a year left. But I know what you mean - they want scales ostensibly tilted, and I'm not sure that can happen.

[Pengwin7]

As somebody that owns Halak & Lehtonen/Niemi in a few too many leagues - I give this thread a thumbs-up. (Seriously)
A few teams do make trades where they just send each other their garbage and see if the garbage in another location turns into something useful - like manure.

A couple years ago I remember the Stefan Elliott for Brandon Gormley swap between Arizona & Colorado.
Interestingly, both of those guys continued to be garbage... with Elliott flipped to Nashville for nothing and Gormley let walk in summer 2016 (he signed with NJ).
Elliott is now in Russia, Gormley is -11 with Albany.

Perhaps the big hang up is that NYI is on the "no trade" list for both DAL goalies.
IDK? (but I do know I'm tired of feeling ashamed by starting my Dallas Goalies - LOL)

[ericdaoust]

A more recent example of "garbage" for "garbage" is Perron for Hagelin.