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Thread: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    It's interesting, how your original post was all about him not standing for the anthem, and yet all you can be is singularly focused on his socks because he's stood up and been accountable and respectful on the anthem front the entire time. He's even explained the socks, but you're grasping at straws of finding a reason to hate the actions.

    As for doing it with class to garner more support, I'm not actually sure what you're referring to. He was sitting before the media drew attention to it, so from the start he was never doing it just for attention. Once people started to notice, he explained himself calmly and rationally. He consulted with military to learn that taking a knee instead of sitting is a gesture the military actually finds more respectful than standing to them specifically. In the face of losing his job and widespread criticism, he didn't back down from his beliefs. He's been open an honest through the entire process, and committed time and money to the cause.

    As for the support thing, at this point, you're in the minority here man. His team supports him. His teammates support him. Other teams and players support him. The general american population, as a whole, are more on his side and support him than not. So on the support front, the "we don't support him" crowd is in the minority.
    My original post definitely brought forth the fact that he was choosing not to stand for the Anthem. It was the introductory post my friend. In it I ALSO stat my opinion and I quote "But to try and make your point and presumably strive for respect by disrespecting the flag and anthem of your Nation, as well as gross disrespect for the police ( piggies in uniform on your socks...real classy)"

    I believe he was being disrespectful to the Flag of his Nation (just my opinion, but recognize others may not feel that way) and 100% disrespectful to police. I have respect for police and while I'm not a Law Enforcement officer, I was offended.

    And you say "All of his teammates support him"... do they? Where's your source? Have "ALL of his Teammates" publically given him support?"
    Other teams (are you claiming every player on these other teams) support him? Source? Cause if not every player on these "other teams" have endorsed support for him, then your generalization is no different than his generalization of the police.
    What makes up this "General American Population...as a whole" you speak of? As a Whole... so another generalization... or are you saying 51% or more? is that what you're saying? Where's your source?

    I personally don't care what "Crowd" you consider me to be in. I have said throughout my posts what I found offensive, and disrespectful in my opinion. My opinion hasn't changed. Did he issue an apology to those he may have offended? If so, I've heard nothing about it.

    I accept your opinion is contrary to mine. You asked me if I still thought he was a Donkey. I answered your question. I have also rec'd several PM's/Comments... but I won't generalize and suggest most of the people involved in this thread share my belief's.

    That said, I was pleased to see a variety of responses within.

    And yes...I'm tired of this entire situation. Wish it would go away as Golden Delicious stated.

    And while yes, Marshall decided to kneel as well... what does that say about each and every other person, player, employer who chose to stand during the anthem? Maybe if the "General American Population ... as a whole" support him as you suggest they do, more than just a handful of individuals should be joining him and kneeling for the Anthem when ever it's played. Man...imagine the headlines and front page clippings of an entire stadium (well..."generally speaking" ) refused to stand for the Anthem? Now that there would be monumental!

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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    Quote Originally Posted by rtstr View Post
    Kaepernick sucks so he might as well do something to stay relevant. There's nothing more to it than that IMO. I don't remember him taking a knee during the National Anthem when he started in the Super Bowl, that's for sure. As a person, he always seemed like a giant douche. Despite his obvious yearn for attention, I do think what he's doing as a whole is positive, and I think it's stupid that people get annoyed by it.
    Feels like there's been quite a bit that has happened in the US between February 2013 and now that would cause a change in attitude/perspective.

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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Feels like there's been quite a bit that has happened in the US between February 2013 and now that would cause a change in attitude/perspective.

    The things you are referring to have been going on for 200 years. Nothing that has happened since 2013 is new. Sad, but true. Obviously his attitude changed, but I question if the change would've occurred so publicly if he was a starter on a contending NFL team.

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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    It’s sad to me how almost every political issue becomes completely polarized these days. As a Canadian it’s easy to say “the USA is divided” but sadly I see these same issues and polarization creeping up into Canada.

    Trying to connect Kaepernick’s actions and message with his play, job, or contract is a strawman argument. You can love Kaepernick as a player and hate his actions, further you can hate Kaepernick as a player (or his contract) and still respect and commend his actions.

    Second, I don’t get how the Flag of an entire nation, and its anthem somehow only represent its military (and police) forces. I get that the armed forces of various Western countries has a role in keepings its people safe, and I respect the work they do. But to suggest any free country is kept safe primarily and exclusively by the work of armed forces is ridiculous. Such an argument completely dismisses the role of domestic protesters, pioneers in civil rights, legislatures who fought for change and yes, lawyers and judges who fought to change the law.
    Slavery was not ended by the military, the right for minorities, women and first nations to vote was not granted by the military, the right to hundreds of other advances in social issues was not granted by the military. All of those actions and progressions are, to me, represented by the flag and anthem of a country, so to immediately suggest that taking a knee during the anthem is a singular insult to the armed forces is nationalist rhetoric IMO.

    Finally on the issue of police brutality I’m constantly stunned and annoyed how you either have to be: (A) 100% pro police never questioning their motives or condemning their actions, or,(b) have to assume every cop wants to kill all minorities. Every time this argument comes up I think of Jon Stewart’s take on the issue below:

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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    Quote Originally Posted by LawMan View Post

    Second, I don’t get how the Flag of an entire nation, and its anthem somehow only represent its military (and police) forces. ]

    The whole of your post is great, but this comment throws me off-- do people really have this view? Operative word for me here is "only". I don't see people saying the flag/anthem only represents these two parties-- i just see people saying that those parties are especially spurned/disrespected in this type of protest and Kap's anti-police clothing.

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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    Quote Originally Posted by rtstr View Post
    The whole of your post is great, but this comment throws me off-- do people really have this view? Operative word for me here is "only". I don't see people saying the flag/anthem only represents these two parties-- i just see people saying that those parties are especially spurned/disrespected in this type of protest and Kap's anti-police clothing.
    Perhaps I'm projecting but this is certainly the feeling I get. As soon as it was discovered Kaepernick was sitting for the anthem those opposed to him spouted he was "disrespecting the military". It's basically the number one complaint I have heard or read regarding his actions. Even after Kaepernick was clear about why he was taking the actions he is and that he has respect for the military the claims didn't change. "They fought/died for your freedom" is a pretty common internet comment as well (which leads to a side argument about whether they fought for your right to protest as well).

    I've also seen plenty of calculated objectors saying things like "I get what he's trying to do but by kneeling during the anthem he's disrespecting the military there's got to be another way he can protest". The flag may not only represent the armed forces but when its group that the large majority of comments say is insulted and the only group raised as a defense you come to a situation where the if it doesn't only represent the military it so strongly represents the military in many citizens mind that you have a distinction without a difference.
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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    Quote Originally Posted by LawMan View Post
    Perhaps I'm projecting but this is certainly the feeling I get. As soon as it was discovered Kaepernick was sitting for the anthem those opposed to him spouted he was "disrespecting the military". It's basically the number one complaint I have heard or read regarding his actions. Even after Kaepernick was clear about why he was taking the actions he is and that he has respect for the military the claims didn't change. "They fought/died for your freedom" is a pretty common internet comment as well (which leads to a side argument about whether they fought for your right to protest as well).

    I've also seen plenty of calculated objectors saying things like "I get what he's trying to do but by kneeling during the anthem he's disrespecting the military there's got to be another way he can protest". The flag may not only represent the armed forces but when its group that the large majority of comments say is insulted and the only group raised as a defense you come to a situation where the if it doesn't only represent the military it so strongly represents the military in many citizens mind that you have a distinction without a difference.

    I hear you. To me, debating things like this is akin to looking at a worm and debating which end is the head and which is the tail. I 100% think it's disrespectful to the military by protesting the anthem/flag-- but that is because the anthem/flag means A LOT more to a veteran than it does to a civilian, so there's that to consider. I also 100% think that nobody should be mandated to stand for a flag or anthem, though.

    So I think the main issue is just bringing attention to it in general. It's funny that with all the protesting that occurs-- a lot of which is violent, or consists of real sacrifice, or pain, etc-- that this, a millionaire taking a knee before his ballgame, is what gets people going. What a strange world we live in.

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    Default Re: Colin Kaepernick...what a Donkey!

    Quote Originally Posted by rtstr View Post
    The things you are referring to have been going on for 200 years. Nothing that has happened since 2013 is new. Sad, but true. Obviously his attitude changed, but I question if the change would've occurred so publicly if he was a starter on a contending NFL team.
    While it's true that these events have been happening for the last 200 years, a lot has happened since 2013. I'll go a step further and say that a lot has happened in the last 6 months. The exposure and attention to police brutality has exploded in the last year. St Louis, Chicago, New York, Milwaukee, Minnesota- and there are cases I don't even remember where they're from all in the last year. So I don't think questioning his actions from 2013 is fair at all.
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