Acquiring Chuckie

[roenick27]

I guess I disagree with you on Voracek a little. Im not sure he can be counted as a proven 70 point guy. In his 7 full seasons (not counting lockout) he has hit:
30 points in 7 of 7
40 points in 6 of 7
50 points in 4 of 7
60 points in 2 of 7
70 points in 1 of 7
80 points in 1 of 7.

Based on that, and it is skewed no doubt, it would lead me to believe he's a proven 40-50 point guy. Is he more than that. Sure. But I'm not willing to count him as anything more than a proven 55 to maybe 60 point guy. I think this is a big year for him with his fat contract. He needs to bounce back and throw up 70 IMO , but I'm not sure he gets there.
Stats

Skaters
Year Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM Hits Bks FW FL FO% PPG PPA SHG SHA GW SOG Pct
2008-09 CLS 80 9 29 38 11 44 0 0 0 3 .000 0 4 0 0 1 101 .089
2009-10 CLS 81 16 34 50 -7 26 63 17 2 4 .333 4 9 0 0 1 154 .104
2010-11 CLS 80 14 32 46 -3 26 55 22 24 41 .369 2 6 0 0 2 183 .077
2011-12 PHI 78 18 31 49 11 32 44 18 7 16 .304 0 11 0 0 2 190 .095
2012-13 PHI 48 22 24 46 -7 35 20 12 2 3 .400 8 9 0 0 3 129 .171
2013-14 PHI 82 23 39 62 11 22 19 20 4 2 .667 8 15 0 0 2 235 .098
2014-15 PHI 82 22 59 81 1 78 55 28 6 3 .667 11 22 0 0 3 221 .100
2015-16 PHI 73 11 44 55 -5 38 51 34 3 3 .500 1 22 0 0 2 213 .052
Totals 604 135 292 427 12 301 307 151

He would need to add a lot more than Schwartz to get those first 3 guys and Galy+Schwartz is probably the minimum I'd accept for Voracek.

It only makes sense acquiring Galchenyuk if you can get him at a bargain as there is no evidence yet that he's anything more than a 60 pt player. He may have potential for 70 but trading a proven 70 pointer for him is not productive. If you could grab him for a proven 60 with 65 ceiling then it's worth it but this GM is too high on his player making it a waste of time

[Eskimo Brother]

I guess I disagree with you on Voracek a little. Im not sure he can be counted as a proven 70 point guy. In his 7 full seasons (not counting lockout) he has hit:
30 points in 7 of 7
40 points in 6 of 7
50 points in 4 of 7
60 points in 2 of 7
70 points in 1 of 7
80 points in 1 of 7.

Based on that, and it is skewed no doubt, it would lead me to believe he's a proven 40-50 point guy. Is he more than that. Sure. But I'm not willing to count him as anything more than a proven 55 to maybe 60 point guy. I think this is a big year for him with his fat contract. He needs to bounce back and throw up 70 IMO , but I'm not sure he gets there.
Stats

Skaters
Year Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM Hits Bks FW FL FO% PPG PPA SHG SHA GW SOG Pct
2008-09 CLS 80 9 29 38 11 44 0 0 0 3 .000 0 4 0 0 1 101 .089
2009-10 CLS 81 16 34 50 -7 26 63 17 2 4 .333 4 9 0 0 1 154 .104
2010-11 CLS 80 14 32 46 -3 26 55 22 24 41 .369 2 6 0 0 2 183 .077
2011-12 PHI 78 18 31 49 11 32 44 18 7 16 .304 0 11 0 0 2 190 .095
2012-13 PHI 48 22 24 46 -7 35 20 12 2 3 .400 8 9 0 0 3 129 .171
2013-14 PHI 82 23 39 62 11 22 19 20 4 2 .667 8 15 0 0 2 235 .098
2014-15 PHI 82 22 59 81 1 78 55 28 6 3 .667 11 22 0 0 3 221 .100
2015-16 PHI 73 11 44 55 -5 38 51 34 3 3 .500 1 22 0 0 2 213 .052
Totals 604 135 292 427 12 301 307 151

I can see your point, but your logic is flawed. We have to go with a recency bias from recent production, because payers hit different plateaus in their careers. As an extreme example, we're not treating Jagr right now by his career average.
In the last four seasons, he has a PPG average of 0.856, giving him a pro-rated 70.2 points per season. I would say 285 games is a pretty decent sample size to get a sense of what a player can do. With some increased luck & TOI stats, he should surpass 70 points without a problem.
That is why I have him pegged as a 70 point guy.

[Zorro]

I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but who is Chuckie?

This is the only other post I have read besides the original but I am in the same boat.. HaHa..

It also seems that I am late to the party!!

[Chunky Chunks]

I guess I disagree with you on Voracek a little. Im not sure he can be counted as a proven 70 point guy. In his 7 full seasons (not counting lockout) he has hit:
30 points in 7 of 7
40 points in 6 of 7
50 points in 4 of 7
60 points in 2 of 7
70 points in 1 of 7
80 points in 1 of 7.

Based on that, and it is skewed no doubt, it would lead me to believe he's a proven 40-50 point guy. Is he more than that. Sure. But I'm not willing to count him as anything more than a proven 55 to maybe 60 point guy. I think this is a big year for him with his fat contract. He needs to bounce back and throw up 70 IMO , but I'm not sure he gets there.
Stats

Skaters
Year Team GP G A Pts +/- PIM Hits Bks FW FL FO% PPG PPA SHG SHA GW SOG Pct
2008-09 CLS 80 9 29 38 11 44 0 0 0 3 .000 0 4 0 0 1 101 .089
2009-10 CLS 81 16 34 50 -7 26 63 17 2 4 .333 4 9 0 0 1 154 .104
2010-11 CLS 80 14 32 46 -3 26 55 22 24 41 .369 2 6 0 0 2 183 .077
2011-12 PHI 78 18 31 49 11 32 44 18 7 16 .304 0 11 0 0 2 190 .095
2012-13 PHI 48 22 24 46 -7 35 20 12 2 3 .400 8 9 0 0 3 129 .171
2013-14 PHI 82 23 39 62 11 22 19 20 4 2 .667 8 15 0 0 2 235 .098
2014-15 PHI 82 22 59 81 1 78 55 28 6 3 .667 11 22 0 0 3 221 .100
2015-16 PHI 73 11 44 55 -5 38 51 34 3 3 .500 1 22 0 0 2 213 .052
Totals 604 135 292 427 12 301 307 151

Voracek had 2 point per game seasons by the age of 25. That's pretty legit. And then an extremely unlucky season last year. He is probably not the 80 pt guy who finished 4th in league scoring in 2015 but a slight downgrade brings him to a fairly safe bet for 70.

Galchenyuk is at the age now that Voracek was when he broke out:
21 yrs old - 46 pts
22 yrs old - 56 pts

Voracek:
21 - 46 pts
22 - 49 pts
23 (lockout) - 46pts in 48 gp (top 20 scorer)
24 - 62
25 - 81

"Chucky's" numbers are very similar to Voracek's at the same age so maybe he breaks out next year and does what Voracek is already doing. Or maybe not.

Fact is Voracek had a disaster of a year and "only" managed 55 pts. Galchenyuk had the best year of his career and put up a whopping 56.

[hockeymanG23]

I agree with the last few posts. Voracek had so much go wrong last year and will bounce back.

Also, out of the 7 years played that were listed above, how many of those were development years? However many you figure the number is, 3-4 likely, that shouldn't be relevant since the vast majority of players start slow and as of now I'd consider him a 70 point player with room for more.

That said, you have to understand the team your trading with as well.

If it was a top end team trying to make a push and Chuk and Schwartz are his last and second last players he might entertain the idea of getting Voracek, but a bottom feeder needs to grow his depth to become relevant and taking on a potentially risky stud should be avoided so I understand his stance.

At the same time he does overvalue his players. Toews for example is way overrated for most leagues but he seems to want real life value for him. I tell GMs like that to piss off pretty quick and to come talk once they've reassessed things, usually in gentler terms, don't neccessarily want to burn a bridge.

I can't see your team on this screen but could you send him two young, unproven, high upside guys for Gally or three of them for Schwartz and Gally?

You may stand the risk of overvaluing your own prospects in that scenario but what's better, getting one or two players about to break out with lower risk along with keeping Voracek or keeping two or three prospects with less certainty and Voracek?

Barring that this guy isn't worth haggling with.

Ed: Just looked at your team, try Fiala, Pouliot, and Jarry. I'd likely even throw in another guy around that same value to get "Chucky" and Schwartz while hanging onto JV

[newfcollins]

Voracek had 2 point per game seasons by the age of 25. That's pretty legit. And then an extremely unlucky season last year. He is probably not the 80 pt guy who finished 4th in league scoring in 2015 but a slight downgrade brings him to a fairly safe bet for 70. ...

Fact is Voracek had a disaster of a year and "only" managed 55 pts. Galchenyuk had the best year of his career and put up a whopping 56.

The thing that would worry me about Voracek is that the Flyers coach had no problem sticking Voracek on the fourth line when he wasn't playing well. No reason he wouldn't do it again.

[theunrealmine]

I simply came here to find out who "Chuckie" was.

[Moses]

"I had sent him a, admittedly not so great initial offer of Haula and Frolik for him which he obviously declined."



If you had sent me an opening offer of this for my Galchenyuk I would not take you seriously and would either ignore you completely or make lop-sided offers back. This is not how you start a business negotiation. /wags finger/

[Chunky Chunks]

The thing that would worry me about Voracek is that the Flyers coach had no problem sticking Voracek on the fourth line when he wasn't playing well. No reason he wouldn't do it again.

That's true but he can't do any worse than he did last year. If he gets stuck on the 4th line scoring at a 55pt pace then he holds the same value to those who don't believe in him right now. BUT if he rebounds then he is worth so much more

[newfcollins]

That's true but he can't do any worse than he did last year. If he gets stuck on the 4th line scoring at a 55pt pace then he holds the same value to those who don't believe in him right now. BUT if he rebounds then he is worth so much more

Well, he could technically do worse. The could put him on the fourth line and take away his power play time.

[Chunky Chunks]

Well, he could technically do worse. The could put him on the fourth line and take away his power play time.

I suppose anything is possible but you could say that about any player and it seems very improbable in this case.

I'll phrase it this way: It is much more unlikely that Voracek does worse than last year than it is likely that Galchenyuk improves

[newfcollins]

I suppose anything is possible but you could say that about any player and it seems very improbable in this case.

I'll phrase it this way: It is much more unlikely that Voracek does worse than last year than it is likely that Galchenyuk improves

Not sure why it would be improbable. The Flyers put him on the fourth line last season. Why wouldn't they do it again?

[Chunky Chunks]

Not sure why it would be improbable. The Flyers put him on the fourth line last season. Why wouldn't they do it again?

That's exactly my point. He already spent time on the 4th line and put up 55 points. Only way he can go down is if he sits in the press box which seems unlikely given his talent and massive contract. Just with improved puck luck alone he should be able to hit a floor of 60 pts even while spending time on the 4th line

[stevegamer]

Not sure why it would be improbable. The Flyers put him on the fourth line last season. Why wouldn't they do it again?

They signed Dale Wiese.

[rataylor22]

Wow this thread lol.

First thought - building off what Moses said, the other guy might be trolling you because your initial offer was so bad. On the other hand, his team is a piece of garbage, so he's probably just really bad lol.

Second thought - I thought Chucky was commonly known, and I don't really follow the Canadiens. Was surprised to come here and see so many people not know it. Doesn't really mean anything, just an observation.

Third thought - it doesn't seem worth the hassle of even negotiating, but you've already said you walked away, so that's good. Dude needs to realize if he wants to build a better team, trading depth for elite isn't the way to go about it. That's the last part of your rebuild, not the first step.