Grant McCagg at McKeen's Get's Defensive Over Laine Backlash

[theIceWookie]

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=2090585

Grant McCagg posted a response on hfboards regarding the backlash about McKeen's ranking Laine first ahead of Matthews.

It's pretty long, and he goes on to point out Leaf fans in particular, compared the Laine/Matthews situation to the Yakupov/Galchenyuk situation, talks about how he thinks Laine could be the best forward in the league in a few years, and then goes on to talk about why his background and scouting accomplishments give him credence to make that call.

It's a doozy, and it funny enough, he barely talks about the reasoning behind the decisions.

[Reuben]

I dunno, man.

I thought it was a very reasonable explanation of why he likes Laine over Matthews, and I appreciate that McCagg took the time to write and explain his reasoning.

I'm going to guess there's a lot of anonymous rippage of McKeens and McCagg..and he finally had enough of it.

Truth be told, who among us has seen much of Laine and Matthews? I haven't. But I also don't pretend to say I have.

[Rodgort]

This was a recent HF boards trade proposal that had Canucks fans saying no or asking MTL to add more, and some even saying Subban for #5 was a starting point. MTL fans threw even more insane ones back:

To Vancouver: Max Pacioretty, David Desharnais ($1 million retained), 3rd 2017

To Montreal: 1st 2016, 3rd 2016, Alex Burrows, Yan-Pavel Laplante

Anyway, I am guessing he got fed up with the utter crap this is on there. I know I have never gone back.

But yeah, that must have taken an hour or so to write haha

[Axeman33]

I dont know how anyone can bark at anyone who puts themselves out there. These are their opinions on who these teams will take. At this point, unless you are actually in the war rooms of any of these teams, NO ONE truly knows what any of them are thinking, and the ones who do normally aren't saying much.

It's just dumb for anyone to criticize his rankings. They are his rankings. If you don't like his rankings, do your own and justify them yourself.

[ericdaoust]

I'll just say if I did draft rankings and someone criticized the list I'd have no problem with it. Just like all articles here have a comment section. Everything is open to opinions. If a comment is out of line it's very easy to just ignore and move on. Getting defensive is quite comical to me.

[pmorrow]

It's just dumb for anyone to criticize his rankings. They are his rankings. If you don't like his rankings, do your own and justify them yourself.

It's just how HFBoards works. Everyone attacks rankings as if theyre official. People attack trade proposals as if theyre real, and pretend to reject them as if they are an actual GM. So many fools on that board.

[Zorro]

I like reading Spectors rumors, but those guys who comment on the bottom are so comical, I just can't help but read them most of the time..

I respect McCagg for responding!!

[theIceWookie]

I dont know how anyone can bark at anyone who puts themselves out there. These are their opinions on who these teams will take. At this point, unless you are actually in the war rooms of any of these teams, NO ONE truly knows what any of them are thinking, and the ones who do normally aren't saying much.

It's just dumb for anyone to criticize his rankings. They are his rankings. If you don't like his rankings, do your own and justify them yourself.

What? I'm sorry that's a ridiculous thing to think. Of course you're going to have people disagreeing and criticizing it. Putting something out for public consumption and not expecting people to agree or disagree is silly. That's like Apple putting out an iPhone and expecting everyone to just be like "meh ok". Why should we expect him to put out rankings with zero response to them?

And frankly I'm the product, if I don't like what I see, I think I can disagree and ask why he feels that way. I see nothing wrong with that. I think it's quite fair to ask for reasons why he felt that way. They weren't exactly great reasons to begin with.

I'll just say if I did draft rankings and someone criticized the list I'd have no problem with it. Just like all articles here have a comment section. Everything is open to opinions. If a comment is out of line it's very easy to just ignore and move on. Getting defensive is quite comical to me.

Agreed, completely. Responding to criticism is fine but the way he did it bothered me. He basically tried to say everyone should shutup.

I like reading Spectors rumors, but those guys who comment on the bottom are so comical, I just can't help but read them most of the time..

I respect McCagg for responding!!

Eh I'd respect him more if he didn't devolve into trying to blame a certain group and say they were being ridiculous, and then devolve into why we should all just listen because this is his job. I respect him for putting in the work and taking the time to put out a list, but the response was not only lacking but it was arrogant and insulting.

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I dunno, man.

I thought it was a very reasonable explanation of why he likes Laine over Matthews, and I appreciate that McCagg took the time to write and explain his reasoning.

I'm going to guess there's a lot of anonymous rippage of McKeens and McCagg..and he finally had enough of it.

Truth be told, who among us has seen much of Laine and Matthews? I haven't. But I also don't pretend to say I have.

I actually disagree with that. He said the reasoning he had Laine over Matthews was because he thought Laine could be the TOP forward in the league, and MAtthews could be a top 5 center. That's fine with me, I might not agree but I don't have issue with him saying that.

What I think was weak was that he didn't explain WHY he believed that very well besides saying "highest goals in a the FEL playoffs". It was weak and not well explained. Not to mention the ranking in the first place was pretty weakly argued and then contradicted a few picks later.

[Reuben]

^^ What are you wanting then?

To me, he explained that he thinks Laine has a chance to be the top forward in the league - based on a few reasons - while explaining his views on Matthews. What more do you want? A detailed analysis of skating stride, shot release, shot speed, maturity, size, how TOR/WPG factors will affect everything?

Have you seen either Matthews or Laine play in-depth? Have you broken them down and seen something he hasn't? What makes you so sure Matthews will be better than Laine?

I don't think you understand how many ridiculous and negative comments - and probably a ton of personal shots too - a guy like McCagg will see, all because he has Laine over Matthews. After a while, I guarantee he hits a wall and gets sick of it.

You've started a thread here to bash him, and all I get from you is that you think McCagg should have explained himself better. He DID explain his thinking. Now - just like fantasy hockey - you can do some research and decide if he's correct or not....and if he's not, explain why. You haven't done that. You've just takenmore shots at him

[dino200022]

I guess my thing is why does any of this matter....for starters as far as I know he is not actually making a pick for any of the 30 teams so take what he thinks with a grain of salt and move on. There is no need to bash someone because they rank a guy higher then someone else it is embarrassing, especially coming from people who I can guarantee 99 percent have never seen either play live right in front of them. TV appearances mean absolutely nothing, you only get to see them when they have the puck for a half second you don't get to see the plays develop, their skating ability, their anticipation etc...

Probably not the best example out there but if you did a poll of 100 people I am sure it could be quite close....Do you want Crosby or Ovechkin?

[theIceWookie]

^^ What are you wanting then?

To me, he explained that he thinks Laine has a chance to be the top forward in the league - based on a few reasons - while explaining his views on Matthews. What more do you want? A detailed analysis of skating stride, shot release, shot speed, maturity, size, how TOR/WPG factors will affect everything?

Have you seen either Matthews or Laine play in-depth? Have you broken them down and seen something he hasn't? What makes you so sure Matthews will be better than Laine?

I don't think you understand how many ridiculous and negative comments - and probably a ton of personal shots too - a guy like McCagg will see, all because he has Laine over Matthews. After a while, I guarantee he hits a wall and gets sick of it.

You've started a thread here to bash him, and all I get from you is that you think McCagg should have explained himself better. He DID explain his thinking. Now - just like fantasy hockey - you can do some research and decide if he's correct or not....and if he's not, explain why. You haven't done that. You've just takenmore shots at him

Whether or not I've seen either of them really doesn't matter (I have). Like at all. He's putting out a product and should have a reasonable expectation that he's going to get that product judged. If he can't defend that with somewhat reasoned explanation that doesn't come down to "I'm a scout, your not," then of course he's going to get criticism. And he certainly didn't give a great response to why he had Laine ranked that high.

His response (which can't be seen now because hfboards deleted it. Because of course they did) basically said "his numbers in the playoffs were huge, he's young, therefore we think he can be an incredible prospect". That's not a great explanation at all. If that's what passes for acceptable for making one of the boldest scouting claims in recent history...

His original reasoning for having Laine at one was better than that, he actually explained that he likes the way he creates space, his shot, his vision, his release. I'm more ok with that.

But then posting some rant on the backlash he's going to receive based on a clearly controversial statement and his biggest reasoning why it's legit is the fact he's paid to scout and has NHL relationships? Come on.

He definitely doesn't deserve the ridiculous and negative comments based on him personally but he shouldn't expect to receive only positive comments about his work if he's putting them out for public consumption and trying to sell it to people. That's delusional. And it certainly doesn't excuse ranting at people and getting high and might on them

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I guess my thing is why does any of this matter....for starters as far as I know he is not actually making a pick for any of the 30 teams so take what he thinks with a grain of salt and move on. There is no need to bash someone because they rank a guy higher then someone else it is embarrassing, especially coming from people who I can guarantee 99 percent have never seen either play live right in front of them. TV appearances mean absolutely nothing, you only get to see them when they have the puck for a half second you don't get to see the plays develop, their skating ability, their anticipation etc...

Probably not the best example out there but if you did a poll of 100 people I am sure it could be quite close....Do you want Crosby or Ovechkin?

That's probably a good point. In the long run it really doesn't

[mounD]

MY rankings:

1. Matthews
2. Jesse Puljujarvi
3. Patrik Laine
4. Clayton Keller
5. Dubois
6. Tkachuk
7. Nylander
8. Chychrun
9. Juolevi
10. Sergachev
11. Jost
12. Bean
13. Fabbro
14. McLeod
15. Brown

HMs in my top-15: McAvoy, DeBrincat, Bellows, Max Jones, Abramov, Gauthier, Kunin

Not necessarily top-15 material, but I really like Adam Mascherin (W), Will Bitten (c), Adam Fox (D), Jordan Kyrou (W), Laberge (c/w), Tufte (w), Victor Mete (D), etc.


EDIT ::: Feel free to discuss these with me.