Addictions

[2014olympicgold]

If your sister is a naturopathic "doc" then she probably think she can cure cancer with the power of her mind as well.

This is why I have you on the ignore list, but I saw what you posted through the quote from Loch and it got me ticked.

Learn a bit about something before you actually post such an ignorant thing about something you don’t know towards someone’s family. Naturopath’s are in fact doctors. In Ontario and BC (leading provinces in Canada in this style of medicine) have the right to write prescriptions. They are more in prevention of health issues, but they also specialize in chiropractic care, acupuncture, dietary help, practices dealing with living with cancer (which is HUGE way to do it now), along with a lot of other things.

Some of the stuff I do admit I call modern hippy, but it’s 100% a great alternative, and I take advantage of this stuff all the time. I know someone who through my sisters recommendation is going to a naturopathic DOCTOR to help deal with the side effects of Chemo.

Learn before you make a comment, especially about someone’s family.

[Bass56]

If your sister is a naturopathic "doc" then she probably think she can cure cancer with the power of her mind as well.

[iwinthings]

Actually Naturopaths are regulated in most provinces and (in here in BC) have prescription powers for certain medications. A certified naturopathic doctor will almost certainly not believe what you suggest.


Fun fact: it was the 80s before actual doctors finally completely dispensed with the notion that babies can be operated on with out anesthetic because 'they don't feel pain'... It was a bigger thing back in the 50s, but some kept the belief through the 70s. Not super relevant, but just one of those things that I find interesting!

The regulation of naturopathy is a horrific thing. Done with the intent to try and keep people safe from the damages of such an atrocious belief system, it actually does the exact opposite and legitimizes it. Homeopaths are also regulated in parts of Canada. Homeopathy is magic. It is not real in any way, shape, or form. It is the placebo effect taken to it's most absurd degree and yet by regulating it (with the intent of keeping pateitns safe) it's actually really damaging to people.

You want to know what happens when you let naturopaths think they are actual doctors? You get children who suffer extreme amounts of anguish, and eventually die, when their parents try and cure them with magic instead of science (ie the recent case in Canada of a young child dying of meningitis when his parents insisted on trying to cure him with garlic and horseradish instead of taking him to a doctor).

Regulation does not mean they are legitimate. Hopefully more of these snake oil naturopaths are charged and jailed for the crimes they are committing.

[iwinthings]

This is why I have you on the ignore list, but I saw what you posted through the quote from Loch and it got me ticked.

Learn a bit about something before you actually post such an ignorant thing about something you don’t know towards someone’s family. Naturopath’s are in fact doctors. In Ontario and BC (leading provinces in Canada in this style of medicine) have the right to write prescriptions. They are more in prevention of health issues, but they also specialize in chiropractic care, acupuncture, dietary help, practices dealing with living with cancer (which is HUGE way to do it now), along with a lot of other things.

Some of the stuff I do admit I call modern hippy, but it’s 100% a great alternative, and I take advantage of this stuff all the time. I know someone who through my sisters recommendation is going to a naturopathic DOCTOR to help deal with the side effects of Chemo.

Learn before you make a comment, especially about someone’s family.

Hopefully your sister wakes up before she kills someone. Many naturopaths I know are very well meaning and kind people but they have been lied to are dangerous. I'd suggest you go some more research but I've found that those who follow the woo are often times incapable of properly assessing information with a skeptical eye. Not everyone is a hopeless case though. Go read http://www.naturopathicdiaries.com/ and get some more insight into someone who has seen the light and got out of it.

I don't care if you or your family members are offended. I find the death of innocent children to be worth making people who believe magic and voodoo will "cure' people.

[iwinthings]

So true. I'll be branded the bad guy while naturopaths indirectly kill children. But 99% of people cannot be convinced with facts but love a good feel good story about how their neighbour escaped the clutches of 'Big Pharma' by using tea tree oil to treat their brain cancer.

[Loch]

The reports from the death in question state that the naturopathic doctor who was consulted told the parents to take the kid to the hospital...

[iwinthings]

The reports from the death in question state that the naturopathic doctor who was consulted told the parents to take the kid to the hospital...

Oh really? So what.

"By any objective measure of a health-care professional licensed to care for children Dr. Tannis did not meet the standard of care," reads the original complaint letter, dated March 28.
"According to what has been given as evidence in the Stephan trial, Dr. Tannis did not physically examine Ezekiel, who was so stiff from meningeal inflammation that he could not sit in his car seat when his parents took him to the Lethbridge Naturopathic Medical Clinic."
The doctors raise concerns that Tannis said she did not communicate with Collet, "yet two other people have given statements that Dr. Tannis did, in fact, discuss viral meningitis with Collet, and gave her echinacea anyway."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tion-1.3554468

Lock that quack up as far as I am concerned.

[Loch]

Oh really? So what.

Your assertion earlier seemed to be that naturopaths present a 'ignore modern medicine, do this instead' agenda... that the one in question said to go to a doctor/hospital seems to contradict this.

Let's be clear, I'm on the science side of things. There is nothing sexier that treatments backed up by a randomized double blind replication study.
That doesn't mean that I agree with your back alley snake oil comparisons though...

[iwinthings]

Your assertion earlier seemed to be that naturopaths present a 'ignore modern medicine, do this instead' agenda... that the one in question said to go to a doctor/hospital seems to contradict this.

Let's be clear, I'm on the science side of things. There is nothing sexier that treatments backed up by a randomized double blind replication study.
That doesn't mean that I agree with your back alley snake oil comparisons though...

Well they are much more mainstream these days and certainly not in back alleys. But it doesn't make what they do any better. This just gets me riled up. Kids enduring suffering and death tends to do that. Character flaw I suppose.

[Canadiens2099]

This is why I have you on the ignore list, but I saw what you posted through the quote from Loch and it got me ticked.

Learn a bit about something before you actually post such an ignorant thing about something you don’t know towards someone’s family. Naturopath’s are in fact doctors. In Ontario and BC (leading provinces in Canada in this style of medicine) have the right to write prescriptions. They are more in prevention of health issues, but they also specialize in chiropractic care, acupuncture, dietary help, practices dealing with living with cancer (which is HUGE way to do it now), along with a lot of other things.

Some of the stuff I do admit I call modern hippy, but it’s 100% a great alternative, and I take advantage of this stuff all the time. I know someone who through my sisters recommendation is going to a naturopathic DOCTOR to help deal with the side effects of Chemo.

Learn before you make a comment, especially about someone’s family.

If you blocked or put someone on 'ignore' you have to stay committed and not respond to them. This is lack of discipline and now we have an unnecessary argument going.

[2014olympicgold]

Naturopathy main benefits tend to be:
-the treatment is personalized.
-Works to fix the root cause of the issue. Biggest example a few yrs ago would be celiac disease. Doctors weren’t used to it and diagnosing things as gull bladder, UTI, IBS, and pretty much anything to do with organs rather than lifestyle
-Side effects are generally very safe (no million side effects like most commercials medicine where “in some rare cases, death”)
-Chronic diseases, it’s best to use naturopathy based on the medicine likely contains no harsh isolated compounds/chemicals. (can’t lie, don’t know too much on this one)
-It’s safer treatment for children and pregnant women (allopathy). OBVIOUSLY this isn’t “vaccinations are evil”. And, “paternity medicine is the devil”. Morning sickness, and other smaller, nonlife threatening disease/events it’s better to use naturopathy.
- No drug dependence. Think oxy’s and back pain.

Obviously if you’re dying, most legit straight thinking people will point you to a doctor. The balance between naturopathy and “modern medicine” is the best way to do it. If you are about to have your appendix explode, don’t go to a naturopathic doctor….common f*cking sense.

If the posts before scare you on how naturopathic doctors work, don’t let that happen. I had a sciatic nerve issue last yr and went to my doctor about it. He gave anti-inflammatory drugs to try relax a muscle possibly pushing up against a nerve. It worked, until I was out. Went to my sister and she gave my back a crack, and told me to do a certain stretch once in a while and I haven’t had an issue.

Like I said before it’s about balance between the two. But Naturopathy isn’t witch doctor stuff. Like how some people have suggested that the mind of one can cure cancer….

Look, I can do a google search on success stories to rebuttal against another user’s points too! http://natural-medicine.ca/success-stories/ Go to one before you make a point. It’s like a little kid who doesn’t like pickles even though he’s never had one.

[Bass56]

The balance between naturopathy and “modern medicine” is the best way to do it. If you are about to have your appendix explode, don’t go to a naturopathic doctor…

I agree with this because as much as some naturopathic doctors are wannabe voodoo priests, the same can be said for ignorant doctors who over prescribe meds. There are some legit naturopathic doctors out there that can help you for minor cases and avoid the patients long emergency room waiting times for minor issues. The problem stems when a naturopath tries to go above and beyond their credentials and attempts to cure things that need medicine and science. As OG says, the key is to find the right balance between both doctors if you do decide to consult a naturopath.

The way I see it, it's like calling an electrician to change a lightbulb. If you can't do it on your own, you don't need the "big guys". Then again, you don't want the "smaller guy" to come in and change your lightbulb but when it doesn't turn on, he starts playing in the fuse box and wires... Find the right doctors and the right balance.

[iwinthings]

Naturopathy main benefits tend to be:
-the treatment is personalized.
-Works to fix the root cause of the issue. Biggest example a few yrs ago would be celiac disease. Doctors weren’t used to it and diagnosing things as gull bladder, UTI, IBS, and pretty much anything to do with organs rather than lifestyle
-Side effects are generally very safe (no million side effects like most commercials medicine where “in some rare cases, death”)
-Chronic diseases, it’s best to use naturopathy based on the medicine likely contains no harsh isolated compounds/chemicals. (can’t lie, don’t know too much on this one)
-It’s safer treatment for children and pregnant women (allopathy). OBVIOUSLY this isn’t “vaccinations are evil”. And, “paternity medicine is the devil”. Morning sickness, and other smaller, nonlife threatening disease/events it’s better to use naturopathy.
- No drug dependence. Think oxy’s and back pain.

Real doctors also personalize their treatment.

Real doctors also work to fix the root of the issue. I'm not completely sure where you're going with the celiac disease thing. It's been known about since the 50s, is a real thing that like 1% of the population deals with, but has been co-opted by the naturopathic movement (among others) to try and convince way too many people that they have things like gluten sensitivity, which as far as I know, there has yet to be any evidence shown that it actually is a real thing. If anything celiac disease is a great example of why naturopaths, who do not have proper medical education, should stay away from things they don't understand.

Side effects are something that real doctors are also concerned with. Given two equally helpful medicines, one with large side effects, and one with small side effects, a good real doctor will always choose the one with the smaller side effect. The reason a naturopath can give a "medicine" with no side effects is because it isn't medicine and does nothing in many cases (ie homeopathy).

Chronic diseases. Hoo boy. This is always a good one. Gotta love topics like whether chronic lyme disease actually exists (hint: there is no evidence currently that it does). Also, the idea that "harsh compounds and chemicals" are worse is the naturalistic fallacy. Natural does not equal better or safer. It just means natural. The quicker we can educate the general population about these things the better.

It is most assuredly not safer to treat children and pregnant women with something like allopathy. It's safest using things that are real. Like medicine.

Drug dependance is a huge issue. No one wants to see their patients dealing with addictions. Giving them sugar pills and calling it "medicine" has zero to do with that. I can give a patient who has cancer a vial of water, call it magical unicorn tears, rave about how it has no side effects, and then have my patient die. Yup, no addictions, but a dead patient. Way to go.

Obviously if you’re dying, most legit straight thinking people will point you to a doctor. The balance between naturopathy and “modern medicine” is the best way to do it. If you are about to have your appendix explode, don’t go to a naturopathic doctor….common f*cking sense.

See, you'd think this, except that many people who believe in naturopathic medicine do not qualify as reasonable people, and thus they put themselves, their patients, and worst of all, their children, through undue pain, suffering, and in extreme cases, death, because of their fear of real medicine. Steve Jobs made it clear that he regretted waiting so long to get his cancer treated with real medicine. Maybe we would still have Steve Jobs around to create the new iDobber if he had not been hoodwinked by this dangerous line of thinking. Who knows. The point is even really smart people, who many would call reasonable, experience dire consequences from listening to this nonsense.

If the posts before scare you on how naturopathic doctors work, don’t let that happen. I had a sciatic nerve issue last yr and went to my doctor about it. He gave anti-inflammatory drugs to try relax a muscle possibly pushing up against a nerve. It worked, until I was out. Went to my sister and she gave my back a crack, and told me to do a certain stretch once in a while and I haven’t had an issue.

Like I said before it’s about balance between the two. But Naturopathy isn’t witch doctor stuff. Like how some people have suggested that the mind of one can cure cancer….

Look, I can do a google search on success stories to rebuttal against another user’s points too! http://natural-medicine.ca/success-stories/ Go to one before you make a point. It’s like a little kid who doesn’t like pickles even though he’s never had one.

While personal anecdotes are interesting, they do not represent real evidence. Sorry. People have claimed all sorts of stuff that they swear is true because they experienced it. it's the reason the scientific method exists, because us human beings are just not very rational when left to our own devices.

At the end of the day I feel that naturopaths are one of the worst things that are allowed to exist in a modern society. There should be no place for them. However, I can see why they exist. Because many naturopaths I know are very nice people who do a fantastic job of listening to their patients. They give them the time, the personal attention, and the understanding that they are valued people. For reasons not important here, the medical profession has a lot to work on when it comes to patient care. A lot of it is just a function of the way the system is setup and it needs to be improved in big ways. No denying that. However, allowing people to delude people into believing that sugar pills will "cure" them is not the answer. Creating a system where real doctors, using real medicine, have the time and skills needed to really listen to people and work with them through their situations. That's where things can really be improved. I hope that this horrific experience with the child in Canada is the start of a big time crack down on naturopathic nonsense. It will be a long hard road, but it's worth it for patients to get proper medical care.

[Bass56]

many naturopaths I know are very nice people who do a fantastic job of listening to their patients. They give them the time, the personal attention, and the understanding that they are valued people. For reasons not important here, the medical profession has a lot to work on when it comes to patient care. A lot of it is just a function of the way the system is setup and it needs to be improved in big ways. No denying that. However, allowing people to delude people into believing that sugar pills will "cure" them is not the answer. Creating a system where real doctors, using real medicine, have the time and skills needed to really listen to people and work with them through their situations. That's where things can really be improved. I hope that this horrific experience with the child in Canada is the start of a big time crack down on naturopathic nonsense. It will be a long hard road, but it's worth it for patients to get proper medical care.

I think your definition of naturopath differs from olympicgold's view, unless I'm mistaken. All naturopaths are not self-proclaimed healers of everything. From my own experiences, naturopaths are professionals that can help with ailments using methods such as acupuncture, hydrotherapy along with dietary advice.

The case in Canada where the child died was tragic AND avoidable. I agree that the naturopath was in the wrong, whether the parents were informed or not. But the same could have happened if they had gone to see a doctor and the child was misdiagnosed and sent back home... The issues typically stem from a wrong diagnostic of the problem at hand followed by a treatment that is innefective or even danagerous. Professionals have a responsibility to help others within their distinct field of knowledge. But I do get your view on cons that try to play medicine-man and risk lives for their own ego and wealth; just keep in mind that it's not all like that in the naturopathic field. Now what is the % in the naturopathic world that is good and safe vs the % that is linked to con-activity and risks lives?? I, for one, will step away from that particular debate

[OlympicGold2018]

Naturopathy main benefits tend to be:
-the treatment is personalized.
-Works to fix the root cause of the issue. Biggest example a few yrs ago would be celiac disease. Doctors weren’t used to it and diagnosing things as gull bladder, UTI, IBS, and pretty much anything to do with organs rather than lifestyle
-Side effects are generally very safe (no million side effects like most commercials medicine where “in some rare cases, death”)
-Chronic diseases, it’s best to use naturopathy based on the medicine likely contains no harsh isolated compounds/chemicals. (can’t lie, don’t know too much on this one)
-It’s safer treatment for children and pregnant women (allopathy). OBVIOUSLY this isn’t “vaccinations are evil”. And, “paternity medicine is the devil”. Morning sickness, and other smaller, nonlife threatening disease/events it’s better to use naturopathy.
- No drug dependence. Think oxy’s and back pain.

Obviously if you’re dying, most legit straight thinking people will point you to a doctor. The balance between naturopathy and “modern medicine” is the best way to do it. If you are about to have your appendix explode, don’t go to a naturopathic doctor….common f*cking sense.

If the posts before scare you on how naturopathic doctors work, don’t let that happen. I had a sciatic nerve issue last yr and went to my doctor about it. He gave anti-inflammatory drugs to try relax a muscle possibly pushing up against a nerve. It worked, until I was out. Went to my sister and she gave my back a crack, and told me to do a certain stretch once in a while and I haven’t had an issue.

Like I said before it’s about balance between the two. But Naturopathy isn’t witch doctor stuff. Like how some people have suggested that the mind of one can cure cancer….

Look, I can do a google search on success stories to rebuttal against another user’s points too! http://natural-medicine.ca/success-stories/ Go to one before you make a point. It’s like a little kid who doesn’t like pickles even though he’s never had one.

Hi, I am you from the future. I ask you, please stop writing this madness.