Shayne Gostisbehere

[SeaDawg]

Gostisbehere vs Puljujarvi...interesting dilemma.

I had Puljujarvi on the team in my sig and traded him for Kucherov about a month ago (around the WJHC when Puljujarvi's value was super high).

If I had to choose between Gostisbehere and Puljujarvi, it would all come down to my team's needs. I think they have similar value, to be honest. If I needed a dman more than a forward, I'd go with Gostisbehere. But if I was set at defense, I'd go with the Finn.

There is a certain amount of risk with both players. Puljujarvi hasn't played a single game in the NHL yet, so we don't really know how he will fair. He certainly looks like a heck of a player, but we have seen lots of great looking prospects never amount to much.

Although Gostisbehere has completely taken the NHL by storm, we've seen this from other dmen in the past so we have to be a bit cautious. Let's look at Del Zotto as a comparison, or Tyler Myers as another. Maybe those aren't the best examples off the top of my head, but there have been plenty of dmen to go on a hot start to their career, and we are really talking about a very small sample size for Gostisbehere. I'm not saying that Gostisbehere will fail. In fact, I think he will be fine, but there is a risk that you have to be aware of.

Anyway, for me it all comes down to team needs. If we knew the rest of your roster and the number of dmen you start, etc., we'd probably be able to help you decide which player is best for your team.

[rtstr]

I said Karlsson was a safe bet for 55+ moving forward, right after his rookie year when he put up 26 points in 60 games. You can just see it in some players. Ghost is one of them. I firmly stand by my opinion that he is a LOCK for it moving forward.

I mean, didn't you say Stone was a lock to score 70 minimum even though he didn't do it?

Sometimes you just get the hunch and roll with it. I'm all in on Ghost.

Ghost is the real deal for sure but I think Big Ev is correct when saying there are no safe bets to hit 50-55. Karlsson is literally the only one. Doughty was considered a "lock" for it every year since hitting like 60 in 2009, but he hasn't hit 50 since. Hasn't really come close, either. Subban will hit 50 for the 4th time in his 7 year career-- just over 50%. The other elite offensive dmen-- Burns, Byfuglien, OEL, Giordano, Shattenirk, Letang, Weber... those guys COLLECTIVELY have only hit 50 points a few times over their entire career.

Ghost is a stud no doubt, but there are way too many factors in today's NHL to anoint any defensive rookie as an annual lock for 50 points. Just too many variables over the course of an 82 game season. But, as a Ghost owner, I love your enthusiasm for one of the more exciting youngsters in hockey

[SeaDawg]

Ghost is the real deal for sure but I think Big Ev is correct when saying there are no safe bets to hit 50-55. Karlsson is literally the only one. Doughty was considered a "lock" for it every year since hitting like 60 in 2009, but he hasn't hit 50 since. Hasn't really come close, either. Subban will hit 50 for the 4th time in his 7 year career-- just over 50%. The other elite offensive dmen-- Burns, Byfuglien, OEL, Giordano, Shattenirk, Letang, Weber... those guys COLLECTIVELY have only hit 50 points a few times over their entire career.

Ghost is a stud no doubt, but there are way too many factors in today's NHL to anoint any defensive rookie as an annual lock for 50 points. Just too many variables over the course of an 82 game season. But, as a Ghost owner, I love your enthusiasm for one of the more exciting youngsters in hockey

This is such a great post. I've often said the same thing in other threads like this one. People get obsessed with chasing the next 50+ pt dman, when in reality the 50 point barrier is incredibly hard for dmen to consistently hit and very few ever do it consistently. I think generally-speaking fantasy GMs should be targeting the consistent 40+ pt dmen with 50 point "potential". I think that is right where Gostisbehere belongs, along with the likes of Klingberg, Shattenkirk, Byfuglien, Burns, Subban and the rest of the high-scoring dmen in the NHL. Karlsson is in a class to himself.

[Hoopo]

I still consider it a dilemma whether to keep Gostisbehere next year. Crosby, Hall, Kucherov and Getzlaf is a decent batch of keepers, but Ghost has me wondering if I could sub him in the mix somehow

[Nikerato]

I still consider it a dilemma whether to keep Gostisbehere next year. Crosby, Hall, Kucherov and Getzlaf is a decent batch of keepers, but Ghost has me wondering if I could sub him in the mix somehow

I don't think he's keep 4 material just yet haha. Don't overthink it!

As for Ghost himself, his defensive game is a little underrated. He's gotta learn how to be an effective defender given his size, but he's already positionally sound and his stick is active and accurate. His speed allows him to catch up to a lot of plays and/or recover from mistakes really well. I think he'll get more responsibility when he gets stronger and is able to be physical. That simply takes time.

As for Ghost vs. Puljujarvi, I'd take Ghost. Only Matthews will be a difference maker early in his career. The others will be years away from producing at their potential; so unless your league is crazy deep and you already have the best D in the league, I'd take Ghost.

[fungchen3]

there are no safe bets to hit 50-55

the 50 point barrier is incredibly hard for dmen to consistently hit

Write it down in Sharpie, gentlemen!!

[rtstr]

Write it down in Sharpie, gentlemen!!

Oh don't worry it's already on the bulletin board in my GM Office for my team that has him!!!

[jman]

Ghost is the real deal for sure but I think Big Ev is correct when saying there are no safe bets to hit 50-55. Karlsson is literally the only one. Doughty was considered a "lock" for it every year since hitting like 60 in 2009, but he hasn't hit 50 since. Hasn't really come close, either. Subban will hit 50 for the 4th time in his 7 year career-- just over 50%. The other elite offensive dmen-- Burns, Byfuglien, OEL, Giordano, Shattenirk, Letang, Weber... those guys COLLECTIVELY have only hit 50 points a few times over their entire career.

Ghost is a stud no doubt, but there are way too many factors in today's NHL to anoint any defensive rookie as an annual lock for 50 points. Just too many variables over the course of an 82 game season. But, as a Ghost owner, I love your enthusiasm for one of the more exciting youngsters in hockey

I second SeaDawg in saying this is an excellent post. It really puts things in perspective.

Ghost may be the next Klingberg (but how's Klinberg's track record? Good, but short), but I'm doubting he'll be up there with EK and PK. That being said:

1. Guys like OEL, Shatts, Buff, Burns, Weber, Josi, etc. are very valuable and if Ghost has these names for company, well, that's not bad.

2. However, if your league considers Hits and/or Blocks, I find it's important to aim at dmen that contribute there too. Guys like Buff and Weber dominate in these leagues. Guys like OEL, Burns and Shatts cover enough in those peripheral cats while putting up decent points too to make them extremely valuable. Ghost doesn't show up in these cats.

[SeaDawg]

I still consider it a dilemma whether to keep Gostisbehere next year. Crosby, Hall, Kucherov and Getzlaf is a decent batch of keepers, but Ghost has me wondering if I could sub him in the mix somehow

yeah, I agree with Nikerato.

Gostisbehere isn't a keeper is such a shallow league as this. I don't think any dmen besides Karlsson and maybe Subban is a keeper in this league. I even question Subban, to be honest.

14 teams, 4 keepers only. That means there are only 56 keepers league wide. Gostisbehere is not a top 50 player, league wide.

[Hoopo]

I don't think any dmen besides Karlsson and maybe Subban is a keeper in this league. I even question Subban, to be honest.

Off topic, but to be clear, Subban finshes very high in our league scoring because of PIM. He's sitting at 18th right now and last year finished 21st ahead of guys like Henrik Sedin, Rick Nash, Karlsson and Pavelski. He's unquestionably a keeper in our format. People on this site always tell me the PIM aren't worth as much as I'm making them out to be, but right now Wayne Simmonds is 5th in our league in points and Marchand is tied with Nick Backstrom. Steve frickin Downie finshed 7th overall last season, and Hartnell was 11th. PIM: kind of a big deal to Hoopo

[SeaDawg]

Off topic, but to be clear, Subban finshes very high in our league scoring because of PIM. He's sitting at 18th right now and last year finished 21st ahead of guys like Henrik Sedin, Rick Nash, Karlsson and Pavelski. He's unquestionably a keeper in our format. People on this site always tell me the PIM aren't worth as much as I'm making them out to be, but right now Wayne Simmonds is 5th in our league in points and Marchand is tied with Nick Backstrom. Steve frickin Downie finshed 7th overall last season, and Hartnell was 11th. PIM: kind of a big deal to Hoopo

my apologies. I didn't notice the importance of PIMs in this league. Subban would definitely be a keeper, then.

Gostisbehere still isn't a keeper, and even less so now that I know the importance of PIMs. If players like Hartnell, Simmonds, Downie, etc. have increased value due to PIMs, Gostisbehere is definitely not in consideration.

[fungchen3]

Ghost has the Flyers only goal today and has set-up another 3 legit scoring chances that could have resulted in goals. This kid isn't slowing down.

[Big Ev]

Reminds me of MAB.

[Godin]

Ghost has the Flyers only goal today and has set-up another 3 legit scoring chances that could have resulted in goals. This kid isn't slowing down.

...and an 11 game point streak including 3 goals and 11 assists and 42 shots. Impressive. The 11 game streak is a record for rookie defensemen.

[SeaDawg]

Reminds me of MAB.

only his shot an offensive instincts remind me of M.A. Bergeron.

Gostisbehere is a much better skating, has a better on-ice awareness, and isn't a defensive liability.

Gostisbehere will never be a top defensive defenseman, but he can definitely play a reliable 22-24 mins a night without being a liability in his own end.