Super Bowl 50 discussion

[GinFizz]

Fantasy football is so intense that it's revolutionized the way people evaluate teams. The Panthers may not have a fantasy stud outside of Cam but it's clear that whatever they are doing is astronomically better than what the other 31 teams are doing. I think that tells us something about the NFL and how it's played now. Over the last few years everyone has obsessed over this intense shift to the passing game. I've heard so many times that "the NFL is a passing game" ever since guys like Brady/Rodgers/Manning have been shredding records the last decade. I find that to be a bunch of fantasy-football mumbo jumbo. People assume that the Pats/Broncos/Packers are the top tier teams because they have such awesome quarterbacks, but that's not enough to win when the league now has so much talent in the less-heralded positions.
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Its still a passing league.. and for the most part, pocket QBs that can read defenses and are accurate succeed in the NFL. Most teams do not want their QB to run like Cam does and I would highly doubt it that we will see a shift in coaches wanting to have their QB take off and run.

[Bomm Bastic]

Its still a passing league.. and for the most part, pocket QBs that can read defenses and are accurate succeed in the NFL. Most teams do not want their QB to run like Cam does and I would highly doubt it that we will see a shift in coaches wanting to have their QB take off and run.

Thing is, Cam has progressed well in his ability to dissect a defense, and his downfield accuracy. The coaching staff has allowed him to run to make him more comfortable under center. At 6'5" and 250 pounds his body can withstand the hits short term, not like RGIII, Wilson, Manziel or even Kaepernick for that matter.He's becoming a better NFL quarterback...that's what's so scary about him

[The Comish]

Thing is, Cam has progressed well in his ability to dissect a defense, and his downfield accuracy. The coaching staff has allowed him to run to make him more comfortable under center. At 6'5" and 250 pounds his body can withstand the hits short term, not like RGIII, Wilson, Manziel or even Kaepernick for that matter.He's becoming a better NFL quarterback...that's what's so scary about him

That's what surprised me a little, he can really throw it in there. The passes I saw him make were pretty damn good. He's not "just" an athletic run at the drop of a hat QB, he's a very unique talent due to a scary combination of size and talent. I hate him.

[rataylor22]

I dunno how you can like football and hate Cam. Dude is the epitome of what football should be. He goes out every week, plays hard, plays clean, and loves every second of it. He legitimately loves playing the game of football and has so much fun playing every week.

As for the "respect/class" thing, I don't consider Cam's dancing when he scores disrespectful. Every player in the league celebrates touchdowns. Brady does, Gronk does, Rodgers sure as hell does. But people hate Cam for doing it. What he does with the balls after he scores speaks much more highly of his respect, class, and character, than "dabbing" takes away from those aspects.

[2014olympicgold]

I don’t like Cam as a player on the field. He reminds me of Subban when he broke into the league. The whole dancing a ridiculous amount in the End-Zone gets tiresome (especially if you don’t like him), and the whole dancing in another players face while back peddling away from him (I think that was vs Seattle?) really annoyed me. But like he said, don’t let him score if you don’t like it. He just doesn’t have that methodical QB look in him too me. I’ve always been curious of if he can step up if he is having a bad game, or will he crumble. Wilson has shown he can have a bad game and come back and still make plays when his D keeps the team in a game, Newton hasn’t needed to pull up the boot strings when he’s sucked, but I think he’d crumble right now.

He’s missed passers often, but it’s on plays where a great thrower would make, but an average thrower you live with him missing. Newton just gets away with it because he can make plays elsewhere. He still can’t really throw down the field, and he hasn’t needed to because they’re always up, or have short field because of the defense. To me, he still needs that extra step in passing accuracy to make me think he can carry a team when the defense sucks. Think Brady, he did a lot with minimal for a long time this yr, but his defense was bad. Newton did do a lot with minimal, but had the same receivers all year and his defense would put tons of pressure on the other teams.

I also didn’t like how Carolina went for 2 vs the Cards, that’s just arrogant.

But unless Ware and Miller get to Newton early and often, I don’t think this is going to be a fun game for the Broncos. They need to get off on a drive that takes 7minutes and ends in a touchdown, something to just put their stamp on the game right away. Then get the ball back right away; turnover, or 3 and out.

I’m obviously pulling for the Broncos, but man I would be pleasantly surprised if they won. I’m more looking forward to the all you can eat, the prizes, and beer at the bar we go to watch the game.

[2014olympicgold]

I dunno how you can like football and hate Cam. Dude is the epitome of what football should be. He goes out every week, plays hard, plays clean, and loves every second of it. He legitimately loves playing the game of football and has so much fun playing every week.

As for the "respect/class" thing, I don't consider Cam's dancing when he scores disrespectful. Every player in the league celebrates touchdowns. Brady does, Gronk does, Rodgers sure as hell does. But people hate Cam for doing it. What he does with the balls after he scores speaks much more highly of his respect, class, and character, than "dabbing" takes away from those aspects.

It’s that he does his superman, then he does his dab, and while everyone is back on the sidelines he’s still doing some odd dance move, then goes and asks for the ball to give it to a kid. Do your superman, and get the ball and give it to a kid.

Rogers and gronk just do their “superman” (Discount Double Check, and the spike) then high five and stuff on the way back to the sidelines (and in the endzone a bit).

I don’t see it as disrespectful, but it’s after every play he goes above and beyond the normal dancing. I almost want someone to say “ok buddy you did your job”. Or a Corner celebrate after a missed pass like Newton does, or have a whole defense come together after a Newton throwaway, or stuffed run, and just dab right on the line in unison.

Everyone forgets the whole baseball bat incident too vs NYG with the Panthers. Even if it was a locker room prop, why’d you bring it on the field, and why was that allowed? And why was your practice squad on the field while the giants were warming up with a bat? That’s on Rivera for allowing that to happen. And something tells me that wouldn’t happen if a Manning, Brady, Wilson, or Brees was leading the team.

[GinFizz]

Thing is, Cam has progressed well in his ability to dissect a defense, and his downfield accuracy. The coaching staff has allowed him to run to make him more comfortable under center. At 6'5" and 250 pounds his body can withstand the hits short term, not like RGIII, Wilson, Manziel or even Kaepernick for that matter.He's becoming a better NFL quarterback...that's what's so scary about him

I couldnt agree more. His passing ability and his knowledge of defenses is what is making him what he is today not his running ability.

[GinFizz]

It’s that he does his superman, then he does his dab, and while everyone is back on the sidelines he’s still doing some odd dance move, then goes and asks for the ball to give it to a kid. Do your superman, and get the ball and give it to a kid.

Rogers and gronk just do their “superman” (Discount Double Check, and the spike) then high five and stuff on the way back to the sidelines (and in the endzone a bit).

I don’t see it as disrespectful, but it’s after every play he goes above and beyond the normal dancing. I almost want someone to say “ok buddy you did your job”. Or a Corner celebrate after a missed pass like Newton does, or have a whole defense come together after a Newton throwaway, or stuffed run, and just dab right on the line in unison.

Everyone forgets the whole baseball bat incident too vs NYG with the Panthers. Even if it was a locker room prop, why’d you bring it on the field, and why was that allowed? And why was your practice squad on the field while the giants were warming up with a bat? That’s on Rivera for allowing that to happen. And something tells me that wouldn’t happen if a Manning, Brady, Wilson, or Brees was leading the team.

Show boating is Show boating... Didnt you like Bautista bat flip?

[2014olympicgold]

Bautista didn’t bat flip, wave bye to the ball, then dab on every HR he did this yr. That’s the part I don’t like about Newton’s celebrations. I was fine with his Superman celly, but then he kept adding things. Then he kept dancing while back peddling away when someone confronted him one time.

Celebrate big when it’s big score (Kane’s goal where he slides across the ice on his knees, Bautista’s bat flip, even OBJ vs Carolina I was fine with {until he kept doing it on the sidelines when the game wasn’t over}), but Newton goes over the top on every score.

Wouldn’t it get old if Bautista threw his bat to Montreal every homerun?

[rtstr]

Bautista didn’t bat flip, wave bye to the ball, then dab on every HR he did this yr. That’s the part I don’t like about Newton’s celebrations. I was fine with his Superman celly, but then he kept adding things. Then he kept dancing while back peddling away when someone confronted him one time.

Celebrate big when it’s big score (Kane’s goal where he slides across the ice on his knees, Bautista’s bat flip, even OBJ vs Carolina I was fine with {until he kept doing it on the sidelines when the game wasn’t over}), but Newton goes over the top on every score.

Wouldn’t it get old if Bautista threw his bat to Montreal every homerun?

I agree he takes it far-- but when a player's biggest knock is that he celebrates too much, he's clearly doing something right!

Also, no disrespect meant but I think that your earlier comment about Cam not being able to throw down the field is simply not true. Two years ago, yes... Half of his passes would be high. But the improvement he's seen in his passing over the last year is insane. I guess you could point to his completion % and note that it could be higher, but don't forget that the two starting wideouts on Carolina couldn't start on most NFL teams (which is mindblowing when you really think about that). He can throw it with the best of them.

[2014olympicgold]

I agree he takes it far-- but when a player's biggest knock is that he celebrates too much, he's clearly doing something right!

Also your earlier comment about Cam not being able to throw down the field is simply not true. Two years ago, yea. Half of his passes would be high. But the improvement he's seen in his passing over the last year is insane. I guess you could point to his completion % and note that it could be higher, but don't forget that the two starting wideouts on Carolina couldn't start on most NFL teams (which is mindblowing when you really think about that). He can throw it with the best of them.

He misses open WR that you see the top QBs make. Like I said, they’re passes you don’t get mad at that he misses. But those are the passes he needs to make to be in the top convo when it comes to his throwing. He isn’t great at those lob ‘finesse’ passes yet. Dude has a lazer for an arm tho.

Use the WR as an argument, but Olsen had like top 10 seasons for a TE ever. And Ginn is a good and isn’t he like 6’6”? Or is that Funches? But still, his WR aren’t amazing, but they’ve worked together all yr.

Newton also averaged like 7yrds a completion, which was bottom of the league (30^th?). And like 58% completion?

He can still make an improvement on the soft touch passes. And the throws on the sidelines down the field. Even watching his 2 playoff games he’s not the best passer. But it’s all middle to short throws, running, and a QB you can’t start chasing around.

The team makes you pay for what their defense takes from you, which is what a deadly offense should do, and he is technically at the helm of it. I don’t like him really, but he’s a good QB, but because of his legs and his physical size, he knows he doesn’t need to throw it down field, or rely on his arm. He can just go for a run to keep D’s honest.

[PenguinHunter]

That's what surprised me a little, he can really throw it in there. The passes I saw him make were pretty damn good. He's not "just" an athletic run at the drop of a hat QB, he's a very unique talent due to a scary combination of size and talent. I hate him.

Most people do hate him. You either hate him or love him. No middle ground.... and I am for the latter!!

[rtstr]

He misses open WR that you see the top QBs make. Like I said, they’re passes you don’t get mad at that he misses. But those are the passes he needs to make to be in the top convo when it comes to his throwing. He isn’t great at those lob ‘finesse’ passes yet. Dude has a lazer for an arm tho.

Use the WR as an argument, but Olsen had like top 10 seasons for a TE ever. And Ginn is a good and isn’t he like 6’6”? Or is that Funches? But still, his WR aren’t amazing, but they’ve worked together all yr.

Newton also averaged like 7yrds a completion, which was bottom of the league (30^th?). And like 58% completion?

He can still make an improvement on the soft touch passes. And the throws on the sidelines down the field. Even watching his 2 playoff games he’s not the best passer. But it’s all middle to short throws, running, and a QB you can’t start chasing around.

The team makes you pay for what their defense takes from you, which is what a deadly offense should do, and he is technically at the helm of it. I don’t like him really, but he’s a good QB, but because of his legs and his physical size, he knows he doesn’t need to throw it down field, or rely on his arm. He can just go for a run to keep D’s honest.

Certainly agree that he has work to do when it comes to the touch passes. That's definitely where he misses most. But I still think he's top 25% of QBs when it comes to throwing. Not saying he's Rodgers level but he's better than most. His ball location and arm strength have really exploded this season.

Ginn is awful though. Wouldn't be surprised if he had more drops than catches this year. Yes Funchess is like 6'6" but he's also a rookie, is not known for his hands and is pretty raw (and only started maybe 3-5 games). Olsen is the only reliable target he has and a TE is a completely different target than a WR because they run different routes. When your go-to guy is a TE and you play a run-heavy offense obviously your yards per completion is going to be a lot lower. Plus, yards-per-completion isn't really a stat to fairly evaluate a quarterback, it's more a play-calling statistic.

[2014olympicgold]

I was saying he had a low completion % and a low yards/completion. If he had a low yrds/completion, he should have a higher completion %.

I think I’m spinning tires on Newton here. I hope he gets absolutely slaughter by the D, and exposes if he can rise up and put a team on his shoulders when his D keeps them in the game. Or just gets absolutely slaughtered and crumbles.

If he gets sacked, and picked off but somehow in the 4^th puts the team on his back and wins the game (or comes really close), I’ll eat my crow on Newton. If his team gets down early, and he gets sacked or picked off, and he just crumbles and hides from the opportunity, I’ll sit back and enjoy the fact he’s not that leader yet. And maybe it shuts him up with celebrations.

“I have to mature up, and realize each game is just a step towards the superbowl. Every touchdown isn’t special until it’s the one to win the SB”

Or he gets called for excessive celebration on a TD that puts the Panthers up by 5 and the Broncos drive down and get the winning TD on the final play.

[rtstr]

I was saying he had a low completion % and a low yards/completion. If he had a low yrds/completion, he should have a higher completion %.

Logically you'd think so, but that correlation doesn't really exist in football (I'm not just saying that-- it was literally charted up to demonstrate there's actually no correlation). I definitely see your point though. Bottom line, he should be a more accurate passer to be considered among the top-echelon throwers. Agreed. But I think that's just a testament to the top throwers in the game today. Brees, Manning, Brady, Rodgers will all go down as some of the greats to EVER play and they're doing it in the same decade. That's rare, and it makes some seriously tough sledding for the younger QBs emerging in the league. Just because Cam doesn't make the throws they do does not mean he isn't an elite passer of the football.

I think you're approaching it the right way-- if you don't like the guy, make him win you over. That's fair. Although I think a lot of your arguments (particularly about not being a leader) are stale. His leadership and the way he's demonstrated a team-first attitude is one of the biggest stories of the Panthers season. Funnily enough there's an article about it on The Score floating around right now if I recall. I think a lot of people are having a tough time shaking the image of the sulky guy on the sidelines by himself with a towel over his face. Definitely understandable, but he's a different player this year no question. I do think you will be eating crow and I think you'll be happy to do so because man is he fun to watch.