The Norris isn’t enough: Why Erik Karlsson deserves to win the Hart Trophy

[iwinthings]

I could say the same about Brent Burns. I was at the SJS-OTT game in December, and watching these two live, there's no question that Burns was way more noticeable and dominant than Karlsson. Especially with respect to decision making. Instead of pinching on every single play, regardless of whether there was a chance to be successful, Burns actually picked his spots. Imagine that.

I'm just shocked that Karlsson can't be taught some basic hockey sense. Then again, nobody could teach Eric Lindros to keep his head up either....

Totally agreed. Burns is an absolute beast.

[Big Ev]

Burns is good but if he was a dominant defenseman why was he moved to forward?

[newfcollins]

It's all moot anyways. This time last year Kane was the frontrunner for the Hart and Giordano for the Norris.

Lots of hockey left to play.

[Rodgort]

Burns is good but if he was a dominant defenseman why was he moved to forward?

Because he is a great player, did you watch any games where he was a forward? He became one of the best power-forwards when he was moved up, I loved watching him play forward.

But I would not say Burns is a dominate defenseman, he is a great player but sometimes can be beat and look silly defending, like Karlsson can too. Well like any dman in the NHL can, people just highlight the bad they want to see.

Seeing as this has become a Norris thread now I am surprised people have not brought up Weber, usually they all love him. Would he not get those sympathy votes? Is it because Josi is better now?

[iwinthings]

Because he is a great player, did you watch any games where he was a forward? He became one of the best power-forwards when he was moved up, I loved watching him play forward.

But I would not say Burns is a dominate defenseman, he is a great player but sometimes can be beat and look silly defending, like Karlsson can too. Well like any dman in the NHL can, people just highlight the bad they want to see.

Seeing as this has become a Norris thread now I am surprised people have not brought up Weber, usually they all love him. Would he not get those sympathy votes? Is it because Josi is better now?

Burns doesn't wear a Sens jersey so you already know the answer to your question.

Karlsson is phenomenal but has warts. As does PK, Burns, Weber, Doughty, Keith. The league has some unreal defensemen in it right now for sure.

[Big Ev]

Because he is a great player, did you watch any games where he was a forward? He became one of the best power-forwards when he was moved up, I loved watching him play forward.

But I would not say Burns is a dominate defenseman, he is a great player but sometimes can be beat and look silly defending, like Karlsson can too. Well like any dman in the NHL can, people just highlight the bad they want to see.

Seeing as this has become a Norris thread now I am surprised people have not brought up Weber, usually they all love him. Would he not get those sympathy votes? Is it because Josi is better now?

I didn't say he wasn't great, but when you are a winger you don't have much defensive responsibility and usually you are only moved from D under extreme circumstanced. Playing wing is much easier than D.

I can't give a Norris trophy to a defenseman who the team didn't want to play D for a large period of time.

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Burns doesn't wear a Sens jersey so you already know the answer to your question.

Karlsson is phenomenal but has warts. As does PK, Burns, Weber, Doughty, Keith. The league has some unreal defensemen in it right now for sure.

We're having a legitimate conversation. No need for that Sens bullshit. It's a legit question to ask why Burns should be considered a Norris candidate if he didn't play D for a long time.

[Rodgort]

I didn't say he wasn't great, but when you are a winger you don't have much defensive responsibility and usually you are only moved from D under extreme circumstanced. Playing wing is much easier than D.

I can't give a Norris trophy to a defenseman who the team didn't want to play D for a large period of time.

Makes sense, but the Norris trophy is a yearly award and he is playing great on D this year.

So many to choose right now for Norris though, have to wait out and see who stays playing at a high level

[newfcollins]

I didn't say he wasn't great, but when you are a winger you don't have much defensive responsibility and usually you are only moved from D under extreme circumstanced. Playing wing is much easier than D.

Wasn't he a defenceman first that the team moved to forward? I think it was Minny who started it. They had too many D, but really wanted Burns in the lineup, so they started playing him forward (I think Jacques Lemaire liked the defence aspect he brought as a forward). SJ kept that up when they traded for him.

[Rodgort]

Wasn't he a defenceman first that the team moved to forward? I think it was Minny who started it. They had too many D, but really wanted Burns in the lineup, so they started playing him forward (I think Jacques Lemaire liked the defence aspect he brought as a forward). SJ kept that up when they traded for him.

Oh Burns was drafted a forward and was made a defenseman by Lemaire in Min. I have possibly listened to Pierre McGuire too much haha. And McClellan(? I forget how to spell his name properly) coached Burns in junior (I believe) and knew how he played as a forward

[donions]

It's a legit question to ask why Burns should be considered a Norris candidate if he didn't play D for a long time.

no its not. its a yearly award, this year he plays D and is incredible at it. Far and away the best player on his team, much like Karlsson.

I really thought you'd have a more compelling argument Big Ev when I checked this thread, but it was just a bunch of ice time stats. I'm not convinced.
Lot of hockey left, anything can happen. Gonna be hard not to pick Holtby after his team finishes 1st and his stats are better then Price's were last year.

ps. I love the Doughty vs Karlsson debate. Karlsson gets favored cause of the flashiness and the production, but it's hard to argue against success and the way Doughty performs when it matters most. (obviously not fantasy related EK crushes him)

[newfcollins]

To add to Ev's assertion, Karlsson is getting some more Hart love.

From this Puck Daddy article (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...0523582.html):

Wysh and Cooper have him as a runner-up.
Lahey and Lambert have him winning.
Neale doesn't have him as a finalist.

[Big Ev]

no its not. its a yearly award, this year he plays D and is incredible at it. Far and away the best player on his team, much like Karlsson.

I really thought you'd have a more compelling argument Big Ev when I checked this thread, but it was just a bunch of ice time stats. I'm not convinced.
Lot of hockey left, anything can happen. Gonna be hard not to pick Holtby after his team finishes 1st and his stats are better then Price's were last year.

ps. I love the Doughty vs Karlsson debate. Karlsson gets favored cause of the flashiness and the production, but it's hard to argue against success and the way Doughty performs when it matters most. (obviously not fantasy related EK crushes him)

I'm not sure what you think I am arguing. I did not offer an opinion on Karlsson for Hart, I just posted an article (and another article later).

It will be very easy to not vote for Holtby. Without Holtby the Caps are a playoff team and still probably win their division. They are a very good team. There is pretty much zero chance in my opinion that he will win. The difference between Holtby and Price is Price played on a meh/bad team. Without him they are not a threat whatsoever.

[chuckcouples]

Karlsson looked awful on all 3 regulation time Shark goals. 2 of them were almost entirely his fault.

[Big Ev]

Karlsson looked awful again last night on the Nieto goal.

Didn't know they played the Sharks last night.

not one of his best nights for sure but another 31+ minute game for him, and the team was without methot.

But lets contiue to nitpick each and every goal against.

[Nehithaw]

Karlsson looked awful on all 3 regulation time Shark goals. 2 of them were almost entirely his fault.

But did he get any points? Because apparently that's all that an elite defenseman is expected to do - at least he played half of the game.