The Norris isn’t enough: Why Erik Karlsson deserves to win the Hart Trophy

[Nehithaw]

People comparing Karlsson to Pronger have to consider Pronger's defensive play compared to Karlsson's.

I don't have any videos to prove it but I have seen some games where Karlsson gets absolutely raped on a play - how many of those could a guy have and still be considered the best player in all of the NHL for that year?

[JagrBomb]

People comparing Karlsson to Pronger have to consider Pronger's defensive play compared to Karlsson's.

I don't have any videos to prove it but I have seen some games where Karlsson gets absolutely raped on a play - how many of those could a guy have and still be considered the best player in all of the NHL for that year?

they really need to split the norris into best offensive/defensive dman. it would solve all these debates....karlsson would rightfully win the offensive trophy most years and it would let the guys that are much better defensively be recognized.

[newfcollins]

sens need to make the playoffs for karlsson to win the Hart. i'm not sure, but has someone won the hart while missing the playoffs?

Yes. Not sure of recent history, but my favourite one is Al Rollins. In 1953-54, the Hawks goalie has 12 wins, 47 losses, 7 ties, five shutouts and a 3.23 GAA. He was last in every single category. But apparently the Hawks were really bad, and voters knew Rollins was really good. They figured the Hawks would be way worse if it weren't for Rollins, so they gave him the Hart.

[Big Ev]

People comparing Karlsson to Pronger have to consider Pronger's defensive play compared to Karlsson's.

I don't have any videos to prove it but I have seen some games where Karlsson gets absolutely raped on a play - how many of those could a guy have and still be considered the best player in all of the NHL for that year?

Lots. If you think even the best defenders never make mistakes then you'd be incorrect.

When you play 30 minutes a night you're not gonna be perfect. Neither is Weber, Suter, Doughty, etc. I saw Doughty get beat in Ottawa when we played them. It happens.

[2014olympicgold]

People comparing Karlsson to Pronger have to consider Pronger's defensive play compared to Karlsson's.

I don't have any videos to prove it but I have seen some games where Karlsson gets absolutely raped on a play - how many of those could a guy have and still be considered the best player in all of the NHL for that year?

Well the Hart is awarded to the player judged most valuable to his team. Different from the NHLs best player.

[Big Ev]

they really need to split the norris into best offensive/defensive dman. it would solve all these debates....karlsson would rightfully win the offensive trophy most years and it would let the guys that are much better defensively be recognized.

The award should not be split. The bolded argument is always brought up but the best "defenders" in people's minds are often not very good, like a Dan Girardi for example.

you don't play 30 minutes a night if you aren't good in all areas of the ice. I don't think you could name many d-men who are much better defensively, but if you do, it's probably because they never actually have the puck.

[Fast Tony DeNiro]

Karlsson definitely needs to be in the conversation, what he's done this year is incredible. But unless something changes, it's Kane's award to lose this year. He has BEEN the Hawks offense all season... The Toews line has been a black hole, and they don't have much depth.

[Mr. Guru]

Im a big Karlsson fan and I think he is great defensively and underrated in that part of his game.

But he wouldn't be top 5 defensive dmen for me. He makes a couple mistakes a game that he can get away with. But that's his style. The good outweighs the bad. But, again, theres better defensive defenders for sure.

[reeveta]

Im a big Karlsson fan and I think he is great defensively and underrated in that part of his game.

But he wouldn't be top 5 defensive dmen for me. He makes a couple mistakes a game that he can get away with. But that's his style. The good outweighs the bad. But, again, theres better defensive defenders for sure.

I believe that 'advance stats' are changing this argument by giving us more data then 'he got beat bad on this or that play.' There are plenty of d-men who look 'defensive' but aren't actually effective in mitigating scoring chances. Just because a guy gets caught up ice doesn't mean the 15 other times he helped his team gain the offensive zone don't outweigh that.

I agree with other that the playoff thing would matter. It shouldn't matter but it does. Also, recency bias often seems to play a role so Karlsson would need to at least keep up his play but also have some monster games in the second half.

[iwinthings]

they really need to split the norris into best offensive/defensive dman. it would solve all these debates....karlsson would rightfully win the offensive trophy most years and it would let the guys that are much better defensively be recognized.

It really would be a great way to fix this problem. Karlsson is so far ahead of every other blueliner offensively, but his play at the other end is laughable at times. He's nowhere close to Hart material as far as I am concerned. Now, don't get me wrong, he'd be the #1 blueliner I'd choose if I were picking a team, but there's too many forwards making a bigger difference for their team this year. When your team can't even make the postseason I don't believe you deserve a sniff of the Hart. Just my opinion and history doesn't seem to skew that way all the time either.

[Mr. Guru]

He'd be my number one player when creating a new team fantasy or not.

And advanced stats. Not a believer in the majority of those stats, yet. When I'm rating a defensive D I don't need advanced stats. Rely solely on my evaluation.

Now obviously that will vary but it's my opinion

[fungchen3]

Without Karlsson the Sens are a borderline AHL caliber team. He deserves the Hart pretty much every year to be honest.

[JagrBomb]

Without Karlsson the Sens are a borderline AHL caliber team. He deserves the Hart pretty much every year to be honest.

no that would be carey price. the habs are awful without him, i am pretty sure they are under .500 since price's last game. last year if you took away the best players from each team (karlsson, price, kessel) they would all be similarly shitty teams lol.

i'm envious both teams have the best player in the league for their respective position. price and karlsson should be hart candidates for years to come. i especially enjoy watching this (sorry i couldnt find the actual video but the audio tells you all you need to know):

[The Comish]

The writer does make some good points and comparisons.

Goalies and Dmen always face an uphill battle in winning the Hart because they have their own separate award which voters can give them and still feel satisfied that they are acknowledged. If there was ever a half season that deserved D-man consideration it's Karlsson's first half. If he finishes PPG or top-5 in scoring and the Sens make the playoffs I think he'll get a lot of votes.

If we're going strictly on most valuable to team then Kane and Holtby have serious competition on their own team (Toews, Keith/ Ovechkin) whereas no one matches Karlsson's level. If those 3 keep up their amazing play their should be some good arguments written going forward.

Great post LawMan!

Lots of hockey left to play and injuries will very likely take their toll in some nefarious way. I hope Karlsson gets serious consideration for the Hart, I mean how can you not recognize his value to the Sens? Can't wait to see what the second half has in store for us...

[Reuben]

For Karlsson to have any chance, he's going to have to be a PPG+ player and the Sens are going to have to be a decent playoff team.

He won the Norris last year in large part b/c he was so good during the Sens great stretch run, but he's going to lose votes b/c he's a defenseman and he's an offensive defenseman. There's guys who won't vote for him simply for those two reasons. So he's going to have to be absolutely nuts for the rest of the year, and I'm not sure that gets it done.

I mean, let's face facts. The Hart rarely goes to the player most valuable to his team. It goes to a leading scorer on a very good team, or to the guy most see as the best overall player in the league. So Kane is the leading scorer in the league on the defending champs. Tough to beat that. Price was the most valuable player to his team...but he was helped a lot by being in Montreal and the buzz that goes with being the face of the Habs. He deserved it, certainly, but being with the Canadiens made it a no-doubter.

Not shots at any of those guys. Love the games of all four (Benn, Kane, Price, Karlsson). But there's way more to this than just "he's the most valuable player to his team"