Reply With QuoteNo way, not me. Consult my rankings: http://www.dobberhockey.com/hockey-h...s-august-2015/
Do I still want rask over Holtby?
First team in sig. Trying to decide on this one. I've been a rask fan for a while. But now everything I'm reading suggests Holtby will be the better own, do I keep Holtby over Rask?
I'm shopping one right now, but really not getting any great offers. So far a 2nd round pick swap (his is high on for my low one). Or a 4th roundd for 6th round.
So which goalie do you keep?
And do accept one of these weak offers, whichever good i don't keep, will be grabbed in the draft early, leaving me no chance of getting the other one back. Or do I let the other one go back into the draft, to strengthen the draft pool, so maybe a better player/goalie will drop to me.
16 team H2H
Start 3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 4 D, 2 G
G A +/- PIM PPP SHP GWG SOG FW
W GAA SV SV% SO
Keep - 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 2D, 1G
C - Crosby, Pettersson, Pageau
LW - Teravainen, Kaprizov, Keller, gusev, Lafreniere
RW- Stone, Kucherov(IR), Wheeler, foligno
D - Letang, Makar, Hronek, Dumba
G - Hellebuyck, Samsonov, Grubauer, Bernier, Rinne
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
No way, not me. Consult my rankings: http://www.dobberhockey.com/hockey-h...s-august-2015/
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15-Team Keeper, points only, best 12 fwd, 4 dman, 2 G count. Playoffs count.
F - T. Thompson, Thomas, Nylander, Tarasenko, Arvidsson, Guentzel, Fiala, Quinn, Mittelstadt, Hagel, Zacha, Roslovic, Berggren, Brink, Ostlund
G - Kahkonen, Vejmelka, L. Thompson, Levi, Comrie
D - Hronek, Morrissey, Lundkvist, Girard, Brannstrom, Rathbone, Hanifin, Severson, Durzi
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
I still like Rask a lot, but I made the following swap myself this offseason... traded Rask and 13th overall pick for Holtby and 9th overall pick. Talent-wise, I think Rask is superior but there are other factors in play here. I don't like the direction the Bruins are going and really like the Caps situation now.
8-GM / WK-H2H
Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10
Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
Captain: Matthews
(F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
(D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun, Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
(G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
Holtby has passed Rask in most formats.
Though, I could see Rask starting 70gp... and given WAS now has Grubauer as a sufficient back-up, Holtby might be closer to 65gp.
In SV leagues, BOS could give up a lot of shots - and (something I've written about), sometimes the most dependable goalie cat is SV... because a team giving up a lot of shots does create a lot of SV for the goalie!!
(I've come to HATE "SV" as a category because it simply rewards a goalie for facing a lot of pucks... i.e. Team Defense sucks.)
re: Trade Offer.
Nope, if you don't get a decent trade offer, don't be afraid to drop a guy.
Some people think if you are going to drop a guy, you should take whatever upgrade you get offered... no-no-no... thy shall not strengthen a competitor's team. (Bold. Underline.)
Dropping a player like Rask/Holtby is probably a top three redraft pick in many leagues - which means a crap team will take them.
Better have Rask/Holtby on a shit team than to trade them to a contender.
My 2 cents.
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
Great point here. Sometimes you need to play league defense.Originally Posted by Pengwin7
8-GM / WK-H2H
Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10
Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
Captain: Matthews
(F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
(D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun, Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
(G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
I think Holtby has to be regarded as the second best goalie in this format. By a fairly wide margin.
Rask and Rinne battle it for distant third.
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
This is along the lines of what I was thinking. The one guy will likely be able to draft Rask, so if he doesn't want to make a better offer he can use his 3-4th overall pick on him. The other guy making an offer has no shot of drafting him.
16 team H2H
Start 3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 4 D, 2 G
G A +/- PIM PPP SHP GWG SOG FW
W GAA SV SV% SO
Keep - 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 2D, 1G
C - Crosby, Pettersson, Pageau
LW - Teravainen, Kaprizov, Keller, gusev, Lafreniere
RW- Stone, Kucherov(IR), Wheeler, foligno
D - Letang, Makar, Hronek, Dumba
G - Hellebuyck, Samsonov, Grubauer, Bernier, Rinne
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
I would keep Holtby over Rask.
And as far as a trade is concerned, I don't mind trading if I get good value back. But like P7 said, I'd rather have an oposing team waste a high pick in the draft then basically trade him for nothing.
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
Rask is one of the top goalies in the league and has the highest SV%, which is the best indicator of goalie's skill (save perhaps for adjusted SV% but that is not readily available) http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/recor...e-leaders.html
Holtby is not as good as Rask but plays for a better team. The Bruins will likely win around 40 games this year while the Caps will be close to 50. I think Rask wins 35 while Holtby 40 (Grubauer is a capable back-up and Holtby won't play 70+ games like last season). As far as the rest of your goalie stats:
GAA - adv Rask
SV% - adv Rask
S - adv Rask
SO - aah who knows, it's a crapshoot. So I see Rask losing to Holtby in wins but winning every other cat (except perhaps for SO). And given that Rask is the better goalie, my vote is for him.
I can't promise I'll try but I'll try to try.
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
Amazingly, I'm in the same situation : Rask or Holtby... I really really like Rask since his draft year (ex goaltender myself, maybe why I get some "crush" on certain goaltender).
But our league only count the "crapshoot" category, namely SO. They're worth 3pts, but no points for win, SV or any other category... And whichever I left will be draft too quickly for me to redraft.
Holtby SHOULD get 5-6 SO. Rask, maybe 2-3 since the team D is an unknown quantity at that time... Do I let my favourite G left for Holtby or do I keep Rask?
Ah... decision, decision...
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
I'm curious as to why it is automatically assumed that Rask will beat out Holtby in all goalie stats other than wins? Obviously you can see I'm a Holtby owner and full disclosure, I'm also a huge fan always saw a lot of talent in him. However, I also remember watching Rask in the World Juniors and thought he'd be a future star as well so I don't think I'm being very biased in this. Now back to the question at hand!
Looking over the stats last year for the two goalies we can see that they were both very close in most categories, but overall Holtby had the slight edge. He's got the goalie whisperer on his side, a very good and improved team from last season, and Rask has a declining team who very well may have gotten worse this offseason. I don't think the talent disparity is as large as most on here are making it out to be. Please see the stats for last season for both goalies below:
Holtby 73GP, 72GS, 41W, 2.22GAA, .923SV%
Rask 70GP, 67GS, 34W, 2.30GAA, .922SV%
Given that both age and health are pretty much negligible between the two goalies I think you have to look at team context between the two tenders. Rask very well may play a handful of games more than Holtby this year as outlined above, but given team context I don't think that it will be a huge factor in wins, but could be helpful with the peripheral stats. I think there's more of a chance Holtby beats out Rask in both GAA & SV%, but it will be close. Saves I could see going in Rask's favor as well, again that was highlighted above. In summary, I think either way you have a helluva goalie as a keeper and agree with all of the advice you've been given in the tread, but think that Holtby will be the more valuable keeper to own.
12 Team - Points only Salary Cap Auction league (50 mils cap, 20 man roster - 4 year max contracts) - 8F, 4D, 2G - $100 Buy In
F - Ovechkin (1 x 7.6m), Marchand (1 x 7.6m), Radulov (3 x 2.0m), Kuznetsov (1 x 2.0m), Gusev (2 x 1.9m), Galchenyuk (1 x 1.6m), Keller (2 x 1.0m), Point (2 x 0.9m), Palmieri (2 x 0.7m), Getzlaf (2 x 0.7m), Lindholm (1 x 0.5m)
D - Burns (1 x 10.0m), Krug (1 x 4.9m), Bouchard (4 x 1.2m), Weber (2 x 1.0m), Dumba (2 x 0.5m), Orlov (1 x 0.5m)
G - Vasilevskiy (4 x 2.4m), Grubauer (3 x 1.2m), Demko (4 x 0.5m)
Buyouts - Stralman (1 x 0.55m), Puljujarvi (1 x .65m)
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
You are using just one year in your analysis. Holtby could have had a career year last season and Rask's was his worst as a starter. I'm pretty confident that Rask will beat Holtby in SV% and S (since he'll play more). GAA may go either way and Wins will be Holtby's. But Rask is the better player hence my choice.
I can't promise I'll try but I'll try to try.
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
Holtby over Rask. Keep shopping to see if you can get an equal return for Rask but don't just accept the "best offer" if it's not up to snuff.
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
Your assessment is fair, although I'll pose this question that struck me as I read your reply. The question being, is this just a down year for Rask or is it because his team defence is no longer elite and since it appears as though the team got worse in the offseason a sign of another down year? Whereas Holtby has played in front of some awful defensive teams and still posted decent, not great numbers but now is playing in front of a much more responsible team and has the goalie whisperer coaching him up as well. The meat of this question is really a 1 year sample for both goalies so I don't really know the answer, I just think it's closer than the replies on this thread have made it out to be. Food for thought I guess ....
12 Team - Points only Salary Cap Auction league (50 mils cap, 20 man roster - 4 year max contracts) - 8F, 4D, 2G - $100 Buy In
F - Ovechkin (1 x 7.6m), Marchand (1 x 7.6m), Radulov (3 x 2.0m), Kuznetsov (1 x 2.0m), Gusev (2 x 1.9m), Galchenyuk (1 x 1.6m), Keller (2 x 1.0m), Point (2 x 0.9m), Palmieri (2 x 0.7m), Getzlaf (2 x 0.7m), Lindholm (1 x 0.5m)
D - Burns (1 x 10.0m), Krug (1 x 4.9m), Bouchard (4 x 1.2m), Weber (2 x 1.0m), Dumba (2 x 0.5m), Orlov (1 x 0.5m)
G - Vasilevskiy (4 x 2.4m), Grubauer (3 x 1.2m), Demko (4 x 0.5m)
Buyouts - Stralman (1 x 0.55m), Puljujarvi (1 x .65m)
Re: Do I still want rask over Holtby?
That's a good question. If you dig deeper into the Bruins' stats last year, you'll notice that they had a lot of injuries to key players like Chara and Krejci. McQuaid and Miller also missed significant time. So Rask played behind poor defence a lot of games yet managed .922 SV%. Yeah, I'm worried about the Bruins but Rask has shown that he is elite and he put up decent numbers (last year's) on a bad team.
Holtby had one really bad year when he played for Oates who was trying to change Holtby's style. I don't think Holtby ever played behind as bad a defence as Rask did last year.
And yes, it is very very close between these two. I am taking Rask because I think he's the better goalie (in fact, top 3 in the league IMO). Only reason to take Holtby is the team he plays for (which admittedly is a big one) but when you look at the individual stats and assess the difference good/bad teams make, you realize these two are very close.
I can't promise I'll try but I'll try to try.
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