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Thread: WHL (World Hockey League) - Settings / Inaug.Draft / Discussion

  1. #46
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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Thanks for the work - based on that, I like the look of Hits/Blocks at 0.05. I think FOW should stay low, no problem if it stays at 0.01 or even 0.015.
    WHL (24-Team Daily H2H)
    Weighted Scoring: G(1),A(1),PPP(0.5),+/-(0.5), SOG/PIM/HIT/BLK(all 0.05), FOW-C(0.01)

    The FF Muskies
    C(3): Datsyuk, Thornton, H Sedin
    LW(3): D Sedin, E Kane, Maroon
    RW(3): Voracek, Nichushkin, Doan
    F(3): Hanzal, Nieto, Reaves
    D(6): Shattenkirk, Kronwall, MDZ, Zidlicky, Murphy, Liles
    G(1): Howard [+ Raanta]
    Bench: Chimera (LW), Cullen (C), Stuart (D), Gilbert (D)
    Prospects: Vrana(LW), Scherbak(RW), Fischer(RW), Kerdiles(LW), J McCabe(D), S Elliott(D), Juulsen(D), J Subban(D), A Forsberg(G), Brossoit(G)

    12 Team, 6 Player Keeper League - Pts Only
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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    OK... a couple player rankings.

    Using HIT = 0.01
    Ranking LW
    85 LW,F Franzen, Johan - DET [Concussion - Out Indefinitely] FA [Claim] 27.28 0.83 3,954,545 - 33 7 15 -12 30 74 11 45 13 5
    86 LW,F Bergenheim, Sean - (N/A) [Free Agent] FA [Claim] 27.26 0.49 2,750,000 - 56 9 10 -2 40 108 2 73 13 2
    87 LW,F Martin, Matt - NYI FA [Claim] 26.38 0.34 1,000,000 - 78 8 6 -4 114 90 0 382 36 5
    88 LW,F Raymond, Mason - CGY FA [Claim] VAN Wed 10:00PM 26.25 0.46 3,150,000 - 57 12 11 -8 8 123 1 7 13 0
    89 LW,F Foligno, Marcus - BUF FA [Claim] 26.21 0.46 1,875,000 - 57 8 12 -5 50 66 1 193 48 57

    Using HIT = 0.05
    Ranking LW

    63 LW,F Fleischmann, Tomas - (N/A) [Free Agent] FA [Claim] 44.6 0.68 4,500,000 - 66 8 19 12 12 131 1 64 15 4
    64 LW,F Gerbe, Nathan - CAR [Wrist - Out Indefinitely] FA [Claim] 43.25 0.55 1,750,000 - 78 10 18 -14 34 235 8 73 23 9
    65 LW,F Martin, Matt - NYI FA [Claim] 43.1 0.55 1,000,000 - 78 8 6 -4 114 90 0 382 36 5
    66 LW,F Spaling, Nick - TOR [Jul 8, 9:00 AM: Maple Leafs assistant GM Kyle Dubas...] FA [Claim] MON Wed 7:00PM 41.25 0.5 2,200,000 - 82 9 18 -2 26 90 1 134 45 84
    67 LW,F Berglund, Patrik - STL FA [Claim] 41 0.53 3,700,000 - 77 12 15 -2 26 145 1 93 26 160


    Using BLK = 0.01
    Ranking D
    29 D Hamilton, Dougie - CGY [Jun 30, 1:35 PM: The Calgary Flames have signed Hamilton...] FA [Claim] VAN Wed 10:00PM 61.04 0.85 894,167 - 72 10 32 -3 41 188 15 106 53 0
    30 D Leddy, Nick - NYI FA [Claim] 60.33 0.77 2,700,000 - 78 10 27 18 14 120 12 73 90 0
    31 D Russell, Kris - CGY FA [Claim] VAN Wed 10:00PM 59.84 0.76 2,600,000 - 79 4 30 18 17 111 14 61 283 0
    32 D Hedman, Victor - TB FA [Claim] 58.86 1 4,000,000 - 59 10 28 12 40 115 11 51 110 0
    33 D Suter, Ryan - MIN FA [Claim] 58.86 0.76 7,538,462 - 77 2 36 7 48 150 11 69 127 0

    Using BLK = 0.05
    Ranking D

    21 D Stralman, Anton - TB FA [Claim] 74.25 0.91 4,500,000 - 82 9 30 22 26 138 14 104 77 0
    22 D Pietrangelo, Alex - STL FA [Claim] 73.7 0.91 6,500,000 - 81 7 39 -2 28 195 12 70 161 0
    23 D Russell, Kris - CGY FA [Claim] VAN Wed 10:00PM 73.6 0.93 2,600,000 - 79 4 30 18 17 111 14 61 283 0
    24 D Hamonic, Travis - NYI [Undisclosed - Out Indefinitely] FA [Claim] 72.55 1.02 3,857,143 - 71 5 28 15 85 132 8 213 131 0
    25 D Brodie, T.J. - CGY [Ankle - Day-to-Day] FA [Claim] VAN Wed 10:00PM 71.4 0.88 2,125,000 - 81 11 30 15 30 133 9 27 178 0


    As a numbers count.
    We have 24 teams x 25 PRO roster spots = 600 players.
    Roughly, we'll draft:
    360F (120 LW, 120 C, 120 RW... 5/5/5 per team)
    168D (About 7D per team)
    60-72G (Either 2G or 3G per team)
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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    I would also like to propose that we finalize the rules no later than July 24th at 11:59PM.

    That gives everyone one week to make up their draft lists and run their numbers; level playing field and all that.
    16 Team Full Keeper. Total points. Protection List (Expansion) In Bold, Minor League (Protected) in Bold Italics.

    Start 10 F, 4 D, 1 G

    3 Points: SHO, 2 Points: G, PPA, SHG, SHA, W, 1 Point: A, PPG, GWG, .25 Points: BLK, .1 Points: FOW, SOG, SV, .15 Points: HIT, -.05 Points: FOL, -.15 Points: GA

    Forwards: Backstrom, Beauvillier, Benn, Caggiula, Gourde, Hawryluk, Keller, Kuznetsov, MacKinnon, Marchessault, J. T. Miller, Spooner, Svechnikov, Tarasenko, Toews

    Defense: Barrie, Brannstrom, Honka, Krug, Matheson, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, Walman

    Goal: Broissiot, Dubnyk, Markstrom



    2014-15, 2016-17 MHL Champions!

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    Thanks for the work - based on that, I like the look of Hits/Blocks at 0.05. I think FOW should stay low, no problem if it stays at 0.01 or even 0.015.
    I agree with this.. maybe HIT/BLOCKS somewhere from 0.03 to 0.05.. for FOW i'm good with staying the same at 0.01

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    BTW - Fantrax.com is "down" for me.
    No access.

    Anybody else try this morning?
    Same for me.. looks like its down for maintenance
    edit: site is back up now
    WHL - World Hockey League (24-Team Daily H2H, Salary Cap)
    Weighted Scoring: G(1),A(1),PPP(0.5),+/-(0.25), SOG/PIM/HIT/BLK(all 0.05), FOW-C(0.01)

    Wheeling Nailers
    C(3): K. Hayes, Hertl, Vermette,
    LW(3): Benn, Palat, Rakell
    RW(3): Oshie, Perreault, Andrighetto
    F(3): Lucic, Letestu, D. Ryan
    D(6): Klingberg, Green, Ceci, Carrick, C. Miller
    G(1): Crawford

    Prospects(10):
    F: A. Nylander(LW), Agostino(LW), Hawryluk(C), Fasching(RW), Saarela(C), Trenin(C), R. Barber(RW), JC Beaudin(C)
    D: Graves, J. Roy, Hague

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Some discussion on goalies & drafting:
    There are only 60 NHL Goalies at any given time (30 teams x 2 Goalies).
    And perhaps there are about 12 coveted goalies in the AHL/Juniors right now.
    That's 72 goalies... or about 3 for each of our 24 Team GMs.
    I would like to see these goalies distributed about 3 per team.

    I'd prefer not to force this issue.
    But I'd assume, in larger leagues, that some teams do hoard goalies...
    And that sometimes some of the 24 teams don't have a NHL goalie to even start most nights.
    [If 15 teams take two #1 goalies each, we could have as many as 8-9 teams who's G1 is a back-up, yuck]

    I've never played in a league larger than 14.
    Have any of you guys had problems in 24+ team leagues where some teams just don't have a goalie?
    Any proposals or solutions to avoiding this?
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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Not sure how to settle the goalie issues. I will say however, after seeing your numbers I'd rather settle on 0.03 for hits and blocks. Settle right in the middle of the high and the low.

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy1982 View Post
    I would also like to propose that we finalize the rules no later than July 24th at 11:59PM.
    Fair enough.
    I think we can finalize scoring weighting & roster allocation by then.
    A full rule-set will be a constant work-in-progress though.
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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Some discussion on goalies & drafting:
    There are only 60 NHL Goalies at any given time (30 teams x 2 Goalies).
    And perhaps there are about 12 coveted goalies in the AHL/Juniors right now.
    That's 72 goalies... or about 3 for each of our 24 Team GMs.
    I would like to see these goalies distributed about 3 per team.

    I'd prefer not to force this issue.
    But I'd assume, in larger leagues, that some teams do hoard goalies...
    And that sometimes some of the 24 teams don't have a NHL goalie to even start most nights.
    [If 15 teams take two #1 goalies each, we could have as many as 8-9 teams who's G1 is a back-up, yuck]

    I've never played in a league larger than 14.
    Have any of you guys had problems in 24+ team leagues where some teams just don't have a goalie?
    Any proposals or solutions to avoiding this?
    Maybe say no-one can take more than two goalies until (for example) the 15th round?

    This will have the result of a likely run on backup/tandem goalies in the 13th/14th rounds, but it should ensure that everyone has at least one passable starter.
    16 Team Full Keeper. Total points. Protection List (Expansion) In Bold, Minor League (Protected) in Bold Italics.

    Start 10 F, 4 D, 1 G

    3 Points: SHO, 2 Points: G, PPA, SHG, SHA, W, 1 Point: A, PPG, GWG, .25 Points: BLK, .1 Points: FOW, SOG, SV, .15 Points: HIT, -.05 Points: FOL, -.15 Points: GA

    Forwards: Backstrom, Beauvillier, Benn, Caggiula, Gourde, Hawryluk, Keller, Kuznetsov, MacKinnon, Marchessault, J. T. Miller, Spooner, Svechnikov, Tarasenko, Toews

    Defense: Barrie, Brannstrom, Honka, Krug, Matheson, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, Walman

    Goal: Broissiot, Dubnyk, Markstrom



    2014-15, 2016-17 MHL Champions!

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    I think you should just let people draft however many goalies they want. If someone decides to use their first eight picks on all forwards, and ends up getting stuck with the Hamburgler as their number one goalie, then that person had a bad draft strategy.

    Also, if someone chooses to take three number goalies with their first three picks, knowing they can only dress one, they are severely limiting their forwards and defencemen, and will probably have a bad team, and therefore had a bad draft strategy.

    At the same time, someone might take Halak early, and get worried about his injury history. So they grab Hutchinson in the ninth round and then Lindback in the 14th. Depending on what happens during the season, that person could end up with three number one goalies at some point in the season, even though they only drafted one starter and two backups.

    As an aside, I'm currently in the middle of a new league being drafted, $75 million cap, 30 teams, crazy scoring system. You can only start one goalie. The setup really favours netminders (eight of the top 20 players last year were goalies). We have it set up so 2015 draft class will have its own draft, and we weren't allowed to take any players with less than 40 career games played before round 16. Some goalies went really late. Hiller was at 259, Luongo at 231, Markstrom at 233, Miller at 267. So in a new draft that was forcing us to take older players early (since we couldn't draft McDavid, Eichel, Sam Bennett, etc.), there were still some number one goalies to be found in round eight. So I wouldn't worry about not getting a number one goalie, unless you are really bad at drafting or decide not to draft one.

    Writer of the weekly Top 10 column.

    12-team Keeper pool, straight points for forwards & dmen. Goalies get: 2 points per win, 3 per shutout, 1 point per assist & 1 point per shootout loss.

    League champ in 2013 and 2015.

    Top 8 forwards, 5 dmen and 2 goalies count.

    We keep 15 players (any position) plus two rookies.

    Forwards: Pavelski, Kopitar, Voracek, Giroux, Little, Benn, Thornton, Galchenyuk, Eriksson Ek, Lucic, Stepan, Simmonds, Dadonov, Lee, Bailey
    Defence: Letang, Carlson, McAvoy, Gostisbehere, Leddy
    Goalies: Price, Murray, Quick


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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    A lot can happen in a snake draft, especially if you're at one of the ends.

    Say for example you're drafting at the tail end of the draft; a few goalies (4-5) have gone in the first round, but when it comes to you you are stoked to see Seguin and Tarasenko still there.

    Right after your choices, there is a run on goalies - by the time it gets back to you, it's 46 picks later, and your best options are guys like Scott Darling. In big leagues, in a snake format, big swings like this can happen. Having a "line" where you can't take a third net minder allows a team to at least have an outside shot at contention if something like this happens.
    16 Team Full Keeper. Total points. Protection List (Expansion) In Bold, Minor League (Protected) in Bold Italics.

    Start 10 F, 4 D, 1 G

    3 Points: SHO, 2 Points: G, PPA, SHG, SHA, W, 1 Point: A, PPG, GWG, .25 Points: BLK, .1 Points: FOW, SOG, SV, .15 Points: HIT, -.05 Points: FOL, -.15 Points: GA

    Forwards: Backstrom, Beauvillier, Benn, Caggiula, Gourde, Hawryluk, Keller, Kuznetsov, MacKinnon, Marchessault, J. T. Miller, Spooner, Svechnikov, Tarasenko, Toews

    Defense: Barrie, Brannstrom, Honka, Krug, Matheson, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, Walman

    Goal: Broissiot, Dubnyk, Markstrom



    2014-15, 2016-17 MHL Champions!

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    this is going to be good.


    WHL (24-Team Daily H2H)

    Weighted Scoring: G(1),A(1),PPP(0.5),+/-(0.25), SOG/PIM/HIT/BLK(all 0.05), FOW-C(0.01)


    Braham Pietasters
    C(3): Barkov, Seguin, N.Schmaltz
    LW(3): Gaudreau, Kreider, Pacioretty,
    RW(3): Radulov, Mantha, Panik
    F(3): Namestnikov, Dadonov, N.Foligno
    D(6): Shattenkirk, Jones, Krug, Leddy, Ellis, Jensen
    G(1): Bishop [+ Elliott]
    Bench: D.Shore (C), Jagr (RW), Zajac (C), Stempniak (RW), Vatrano (LW), Barberio (D), J.Benn (D), B.Hunt (D)
    Farm: , Myers (D), Husso (G), Soderstrom (G), Petersen (G), Anderson-Dolan (C), Hyka (LW)
    , Conacher (LW)

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy1982 View Post
    A lot can happen in a snake draft, especially if you're at one of the ends.

    Say for example you're drafting at the tail end of the draft; a few goalies (4-5) have gone in the first round, but when it comes to you you are stoked to see Seguin and Tarasenko still there.

    Right after your choices, there is a run on goalies - by the time it gets back to you, it's 46 picks later, and your best options are guys like Scott Darling. In big leagues, in a snake format, big swings like this can happen. Having a "line" where you can't take a third net minder allows a team to at least have an outside shot at contention if something like this happens.
    Even with the rule of not taking a third goaltender, this can still happen. We can still have a run of goalies. In fact, odds are by restricting the number of goalies one can select, there's more likely to be a run because you can't have an extra goalie that you can snag as a sleeper. Restricting the rules about choosing goalies won't stop goalie runs at all.

    Writer of the weekly Top 10 column.

    12-team Keeper pool, straight points for forwards & dmen. Goalies get: 2 points per win, 3 per shutout, 1 point per assist & 1 point per shootout loss.

    League champ in 2013 and 2015.

    Top 8 forwards, 5 dmen and 2 goalies count.

    We keep 15 players (any position) plus two rookies.

    Forwards: Pavelski, Kopitar, Voracek, Giroux, Little, Benn, Thornton, Galchenyuk, Eriksson Ek, Lucic, Stepan, Simmonds, Dadonov, Lee, Bailey
    Defence: Letang, Carlson, McAvoy, Gostisbehere, Leddy
    Goalies: Price, Murray, Quick


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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by newfcollins View Post
    Even with the rule of not taking a third goaltender, this can still happen. We can still have a run of goalies. In fact, odds are by restricting the number of goalies one can select, there's more likely to be a run because you can't have an extra goalie that you can snag as a sleeper. Restricting the rules about choosing goalies won't stop goalie runs at all.
    No. But what would happen in this scenario (with the limit), the GM in question wouldn't have to make a "bad" goalie pick with his next pick, he could take a defenceman or forward if they were the best player on the board, knowing that there are a limited number of goalies that can still be taken, and that if he waits until a round or two before the cutoff, he can build his team properly, and take his (poor) goaltenders in a later round, where they should be taken.

    A limit protects GMs who miss out on a goalie run from having to take a weak goalie FAR earlier than they ought, simply because they are afraid of other teams snagging such weak options as a #3, leaving them with NO options in net.

    If this were a straight draft rather than a snake, I wouldn't be pushing for this, as the longest you can go without a pick is 23 players, but with the longest interval being 46, there needs to be some protection IMO.
    16 Team Full Keeper. Total points. Protection List (Expansion) In Bold, Minor League (Protected) in Bold Italics.

    Start 10 F, 4 D, 1 G

    3 Points: SHO, 2 Points: G, PPA, SHG, SHA, W, 1 Point: A, PPG, GWG, .25 Points: BLK, .1 Points: FOW, SOG, SV, .15 Points: HIT, -.05 Points: FOL, -.15 Points: GA

    Forwards: Backstrom, Beauvillier, Benn, Caggiula, Gourde, Hawryluk, Keller, Kuznetsov, MacKinnon, Marchessault, J. T. Miller, Spooner, Svechnikov, Tarasenko, Toews

    Defense: Barrie, Brannstrom, Honka, Krug, Matheson, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, Walman

    Goal: Broissiot, Dubnyk, Markstrom



    2014-15, 2016-17 MHL Champions!

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    In your scenario though, you're anticipating about 35 goalies (all the number ones, plus 1B options like Niemi, Allen, Mrazek, Lack, Hutchinson, etc.) to be selected within the first 71 picks. This will not happen. I guarantee it. You're basically saying at least 10 owners are going to go goalie, forward, goalie. Or defence, goalie, goalie. Or whatever. Why would any GM in this league, much less at least 10 of them, use two of their first three picks on goalies in a start one-goalie league when there would be so much talent at forward and defence available?

    And if you are concerned about this happening, then you take Seguin-Bobrovsky with your first two picks, instead of Seguin-Tarasenko.

    Writer of the weekly Top 10 column.

    12-team Keeper pool, straight points for forwards & dmen. Goalies get: 2 points per win, 3 per shutout, 1 point per assist & 1 point per shootout loss.

    League champ in 2013 and 2015.

    Top 8 forwards, 5 dmen and 2 goalies count.

    We keep 15 players (any position) plus two rookies.

    Forwards: Pavelski, Kopitar, Voracek, Giroux, Little, Benn, Thornton, Galchenyuk, Eriksson Ek, Lucic, Stepan, Simmonds, Dadonov, Lee, Bailey
    Defence: Letang, Carlson, McAvoy, Gostisbehere, Leddy
    Goalies: Price, Murray, Quick


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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Talking it out in another thread...
    I don't think we'll need to put any restrictions on goalies.

    Hoarding them won't have any value. [Well - except there's often the case of that one or two GMs that gets suckered into believing the NEED at last one elite goalie.]
    The 40th-60th range of goalies last year (NHL back-ups) scored about 30pts-10pts.

    I think it would almost be stubborn of a team to put that on their bench (for pure trade value) when they could be drafting a 40-50pt forward.
    I'd rather have a 40-50pt "bench" forward and get them in for maybe 60+ nights... then to hoard a back-up goalie that I might slot in for his 20 games.
    That said, a team without any goalie might want the +30pts for a back-up rather than selecting a 40pt forward when they know they can still get a 20pt forward 6 rounds later.

    It's the "weighted points" format of this pool that I think will help prohibit goalie scarcity & goalie hoarding.
    Many of us, myself included, are more used to "category" play (H2H or Roto)... where sheer volume of Wins & SVs has big value.
    We've gotten rubbed by the "gotta have an elite goalie" mentality.

    Here, the teams that draft 2-3 top goalies would be wasting a valuable bench skater slot to hoard a goalie and not simply draft an extra bench skater.
    That's not to say there's not value in dangling a +1 goalie in trade talks.

    Anyways...
    For these reasons, I don't think we'll need to put any restrictions in the draft on goalies.
    I think a team can survive even without a good goalie... but obviously there is some strategy in getting a serviceable 100+pt guy, rather than being stuck with a 30pt back-up.

    Mmm... strategy.
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