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Thread: WHL (World Hockey League) - Settings / Inaug.Draft / Discussion

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    Default WHL (World Hockey League) - Settings / Inaug.Draft / Discussion

    Just setting up this thread for settings, rules, scoring discussion.
    Our new 24-team partial-keeper league on Fantrax has been dubbed the WHL (World Hockey League) - for time pending.

    1. GMs/Invites/Payment
    List of GMs (24): als_revenge, Bobby4Ever, Brady19, brakli, Brosive, Burgundy, GoNucks, glorybe23, gopack26, GretzkysMullet, havanablast21, InForAPenny, Lemmy, Loch, MCMackerel, newfcollins, Pengwin7, Pit Bulls, praba, rainydrinkwater, rataylor22, Savvy1982, SeaDawg, VintageVibe.
    Team Names: Place_Nickname. Any Place and Nickname you like. Nothing like Tyutin in the Staal though, please.
    You should have all received a Dobber Forums PM from me to ask for your emails addresses.
    I'll use those email addresses to invite you to the Fantrax league tonight (Tuesday, July 14th).
    Payment ($50) is due between July 15 - July 28th to ensure your spot.
    Important: If I have not received your payment by midnight (Tuesday, July 28th), you'll be removed from list.
    Teams will not be permitted to draft without a payment.

    2. Inaugural Draft / Schedule / Trading
    ***EDIT: The Draft Order was set at 3pm Eastern on July 24th, with 23/24 GMs paid.***
    The draft will commence on Saturday, August 1st, snake-format.
    Each team will pick one player per day for 35 days.

    By Friday, September 4th, all teams will have 35 player roster and we will break/freeze for Labour Day (Sat/Sun/Mon).
    There will be NO TRADING during the inaugural draft.
    Sorry to any of you that love wheeling & dealing draft picks and just drafted players - but too tough for a commissioner on league-start-up.
    This is a schedule-based decision... it is very difficult to stay on a schedule allowing trades during the inaugural draft.
    The rulebook will come together slowly - and until it does - flexibility in team management will be limited.
    Trade talks & trades may commence on September 8th, following Labour Day.


    ***Items below this point are Default Settings. Feel free to make any comments/recommendations on anything you'd like to discuss changing***

    3. Player Roster
    Based on majority feedback during interest-thread, we'll go with the following roster settings:
    PRO Roster (25): Start 3C/3LW/3RW/3F/6D/1G Daily. +6 Bench Players. $100m cap. This is average of $4m per player x 25 players.
    JR Roster (10): Any mix of players you wish. Skaters < 100gp. Goalies < 40gp. (Discussion item)
    IMPORTANT: The inaugural draft is ALL players: PRO & JUNIOR (incl. 2015 draftees). Each team can decide whether they think they want to take Noah Hanifin or Justin Faulk in the 7th round (say).
    Each team will need to draft their 25 & 10 eligible players in their 35 picks. I'm not holding any hands doing anybody's drafting. There will not be a separate Junior draft this year.

    Teams will be allowed to protect 25 of 35 players, min. 5 junior players each year. (Protection date TBD - discussion item)
    Teams will be permitted to protect a maximum of (2) PRO Goalies. This is to avoid goalie hoarding & promote league parity/balance.
    There will be a JR-TEAM Prospect Draft each year: month of July.
    There will be a PRO-TEAM replacement draft each year: month of August.
    These will help to keep summer active.

    4. H2H Weighted Match-Ups & Scoring
    This will be the big item to discuss. Values below are just starting points.
    Each Week there will be a H2H match-up between two teams. The team with the highest total points wins the match-up and gets a WIN.
    Skaters:
    Goals = 1.0 (50 goals = 50pts)
    Assists = 1.0 (50 assists = 50pts)

    PPP = 0.5 (30 PPP = 15pts)
    +/- = 0.5 (+30guy +15pts. -30guy = -15pts)

    SOG = 0.05 (360 SOG Ovechkin = +18pts)
    PIM = 0.05 (100 PIM Goon = +5pts)
    HIT = 0.05 (300 Hit Matt Martin = +15pts)
    BLK = 0.05 (200 Block Josh Gorges = +10pts)

    FOW = 0.01 (1000 FOW Giroux = +10pts). *Only players slotted in a center position are eligible for FOW points.

    A good night by a star forward (Ovechkin) = Goal, 8 SOG, 3 HIT, +1 = 1.0 + 0.4 + 0.03 +1 = 2.43pts

    Goalies:
    Win = 2.0
    SO = 3.0
    SV = 0.1
    GAA = -1.0
    A good night by a star goalie (Carey Price) = Win, 28sv, -2ga, = 2.0 + 2.8 - 2.0 = 2.8pts

    5. Schedule
    With 24 teams, we'll use a fair (23)week regular season where each team plays every opponent once.
    Week #24 is quarter-finals.
    Week #25 is semi-finals.
    Week #26/27 (13-days of NHL hockey) is finals.
    There will be three TIERS of playoffs. Upper Tier (#1-#8... for the money!), Middle-Tier (#9-#16), Bottom-Tier (#17-#24).
    Middle & Bottom Tier champs & runner-ups will win improved draft slot (/lottery odds) in upcoming prospect & replacement drafts.
    (Lower & Middle Tier Winners will win a 2-spot "jump" up draft standings, Tier Runner-Ups will win a 1-spot "jump" up draft standings.)

    6. Trading / Rule Interpretation
    Teams will be permitted to trade future year prospect & replacement draft picks permitted they have paid for their following year. (all teams WILL have paid for two years with $50 payment).
    All trades are subject to league-wide voting. All non-trading teams may publicly veto a trade. A veto vote of over 75%, which is 17+ of 22 non-trading teams, will overthrow a trade.
    There will be a three commissioners (myself, and two elected others TBD) for when we need to address rules & league fairness.

    7. Entry Fees & Prize Payout.
    $25 entry fee per year. League can discuss & vote on future increase.
    The first year's entry fee of $50 covers Year #1 & Year #2 for each team.
    Total IN: $600 (24 teams x $25)
    Total OUT: $600 ($80 for Fantrax Premium. $150 Regular Season Best H2H Record. $50 Reg2nd-H2Hrec. $25 Reg3rd-H2Hrec. $45 Regular Season most H2H Points. $250 Playoff H2H Champ (top 8 teams ONLY).]

    If at any time a team wishes to leave the league, they will be in charge of finding a replacement GM for their team who can pay fees.
    If they find that team, they will be refunded their $25 future year payment.
    Last edited by Pengwin7; October 19, 2015 at 8:54 AM. Reason: Draft Note updated.

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Just to confirm, it will be a snake draft?

    Also, ignore my previous PM.

    Writer of the weekly Top 10 column.

    12-team Keeper pool, straight points for forwards & dmen. Goalies get: 2 points per win, 3 per shutout, 1 point per assist & 1 point per shootout loss.

    League champ in 2013 and 2015.

    Top 8 forwards, 5 dmen and 2 goalies count.

    We keep 15 players (any position) plus two rookies.

    Forwards: Pavelski, Kopitar, Voracek, Giroux, Little, Benn, Thornton, Galchenyuk, Eriksson Ek, Lucic, Stepan
    Defence: Letang, Carlson, Ghost, Streit, Green, Lindholm, Giordano, Honka
    Goalies: Price, Murray, Quick, Halak

    My personal blog: http://theryancokeexperience.wordpress.com

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Comments:

    I like 25 keepers more than 20, with the stipulation that you have to keep at least 7-8 of your farm team (or else what is the real point of the farm team?)

    I dislike that a PPP is worth the same as an assist and goal. I Like a bonus for the but it should be less (0.5-0.75 Pts)

    I think Skaters should be able to play a full season (~80 GP) and goalies a half season (~40 GP) before they are ineligible for the junior roster.

    I need an email to pay my fee to because I'm going on vacation on 3 days and will have pretty terrible internet access for the rest of July.
    12 Team H2H Keeper, Keep 17, Keepers,
    Roster: 4C, 3RW, 3LW, 5D, 2U, 3B, 3IR, 4G (Start 2)
    Stats: G(3), A(2), +/-, PIM(0.5), PPP(2), SHP(3), GWG(2), SOG (0.1), HITS(0.1), BLKS(0.2), W(3), OTL (1), GA(-1), SV(0.2), SO(3)

    C: Crosby, Seguin (C/RW), Barkov, Granlund (C/LW/RW), Backlund
    LW: Benn, Drouin (LW/RW), Skinner, Ehlers, Sheary
    RW: Kucherov, Voracek, Laine (RW/LW), Radulov (RW/LW), Puljujarvi
    D: Karlsson, Byfuglien, Josi, Werenski, Giordano, Hamilton
    G: Schneider, Talbot, Vasilevskiy, Andersen
    IR:

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Comments:

    I like 25 keepers more than 20, with the stipulation that you have to keep at least 7-8 of your farm team (or else what is the real point of the farm team?)

    I dislike that a PPP is worth the same as an assist and goal. I Like a bonus for the but it should be less (0.5-0.75 Pts)

    I think Skaters should be able to play a full season (~80 GP) and goalies a half season (~40 GP) before they are ineligible for the junior roster.

    I need an email to pay my fee to because I'm going on vacation on 3 days and will have pretty terrible internet access for the rest of July.

    These are good ideas.
    I scaled back PPP to 0.5 just now, good call.
    We can discuss keepers numbers, I might be OK with 25 incl. a minimum of 5 from junior team. That might achieve forcing people to throw back at least 5 of their PRO team.

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    If we don't have a junior minimum that must be kept, I agree with 20. If we do, I think it should be higher. However I always lean as far towards "full dynasty" as possible.
    12 Team H2H Keeper, Keep 17, Keepers,
    Roster: 4C, 3RW, 3LW, 5D, 2U, 3B, 3IR, 4G (Start 2)
    Stats: G(3), A(2), +/-, PIM(0.5), PPP(2), SHP(3), GWG(2), SOG (0.1), HITS(0.1), BLKS(0.2), W(3), OTL (1), GA(-1), SV(0.2), SO(3)

    C: Crosby, Seguin (C/RW), Barkov, Granlund (C/LW/RW), Backlund
    LW: Benn, Drouin (LW/RW), Skinner, Ehlers, Sheary
    RW: Kucherov, Voracek, Laine (RW/LW), Radulov (RW/LW), Puljujarvi
    D: Karlsson, Byfuglien, Josi, Werenski, Giordano, Hamilton
    G: Schneider, Talbot, Vasilevskiy, Andersen
    IR:

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Stoked.

    CSKA Moscow has entered the building.

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    I noticed we have 3 IR positions (Fantrax). I would like to have 5 IR positions as last year I ran into a spell of injuries in Feb. My league didn't have enough IR positions and the players were too good to drop so I had to start players that were on IR. 5 IR positions would provide each of us with more flexibility.

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Are we really including +/- ??

    I'd rather see more points awarded for Hits/Blocks/FOW than include +/-

    Also - currently we are giving 0.1 points for a faceoff win, but 0.01 for a blocked shot? That seems... off somehow.
    16 Team Full Keeper. Total points. Protection List (Expansion) In Bold, Minor League (Protected) in Bold Italics.

    Start 10 F, 4 D, 1 G

    3 Points: SHO, 2 Points: G, PPA, SHG, SHA, W, 1 Point: A, PPG, GWG, .25 Points: BLK, .1 Points: FOW, SOG, SV, .15 Points: HIT, -.05 Points: FOL, -.15 Points: GA

    Forwards: Backstrom, Benn, Bozak, Keller, Krejci, Kuznetsov, Ladd, MacKinnon, Marchessault, J. T. Miller, D. Ryan, Spooner, Tarasenko, Toews

    Defense: Barrie, Goligoski, Honka, Krug, Matheson, Shattenkirk, Stone,

    Goal: Dubnyk,



    2014-15, 2016-17 MHL Champions!


    Certifiable Jonathan Marchessault Fanboy.

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy1982 View Post
    Also - currently we are giving 0.1 points for a faceoff win, but 0.01 for a blocked shot? That seems... off somehow.
    Agree with this. I'm also not a fan of +/-, but it makes some sense to include it if PPP are a cat.

    One setting I really like is an extra weighting for defence points. I think it helps even out positional value. Maybe 0.25 bonus?

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    I agree with 5 IR position suggestion above! And also agree with 25 keepers (or more). The more kept the better in my opinion to drive trade activity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    A big thank you to P7 for setting this all up!
    WHL - World Hockey League (24-Team Daily H2H) Est. 2015

    Vancouver Voodoo
    C: Scheifele, Sedin, Stastny, Zetterberg
    LW: Panarin, Landeskog,
    RW: P. Kane, , Meier, Mantha, Anderson, Coyle, Hansen
    D: Carlson, Faulk, Hamilton, Trouba, Goligoski, Matheson
    G: Andersen, Mason
    Minors: Demko, Virtanen, Walman, Benson, Gourde, Boqvist, Glass, Foote, Claesson, Gaudette

    12 team, keep 15 H2H Weekly
    Crosby, Malkin, Seguin, Kessel, Kucherov, Byfuglien, OEL, Klingberg, Holtby, Quick, Scheifele, Hellebuyck, Simmonds, B Schenn, Trocheck

    Please follow me @JustPuckIt_

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Question regarding drafting timeline. If we are drafting one player per team per day for 35 days, that would mean that at 24 teams we would have to make a selection each hour of the day wouldn't it? Now granted some of the time the picks would be going more quickly, but unless my math skills are off an hour per selection seems pretty quick. If that's normal then ok, just querying.

    Also, I agree with GoNucks, thanks to Pengwin for this league idea.
    WHL - World Hockey League (24-Team Daily H2H)
    Weighted Scoring: G(1),A(1),PPP(0.5),+/-(0.5), SOG/PIM/HIT/BLK(all 0.05), FOW-C(0.01)

    Saanichton Cougars
    C(3): Bolland, Gaustad, Plekanec
    LW(3): Pacioretty, Huberdeau , Bailey
    RW(3): Nyqvist, Ehlers, Hansen
    F(3): Read, Bolland, Fehr
    D(6): Subban, Streit, De Haan, Alzner, Jackman, Moore
    G(1): Luongo, Neuvirth
    Bench: Kassian(RW), Hayes (RW), Latta (C), Legwand (C)Ullmark(G)

    Prospects(10): Hartman(RW), Malgin(C), Vesey(LW), Milano(LW), Mueller (D), Forsling(D), Morin(D),
    Schmaltz(D), Vanelli(D), O'Connor(G),

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Goalies, I know you scaled the wins pts back by 1 point but I think that 3 was actually a fair number. The thing is, in a 24 team league -- goalies are going to be an extremely rare commodity and by limiting the points on goalies you are really limiting the value on lower tier goalies. That's just my 2 cents, I'd prefer to have a few awesome goalies like Price be the most valuable players in the league rather than have guys like Price be on par with Ovy and a bunch of mid tier starters like Luongo or Hiller be very unworthwhile. That said, I'm open to whatever the consensus is.

    I also prefer 4 IR. I don't think that IR should always house all a team's injured players. Sometimes you run into bad luck and you are forced to get creative with a solution. I think 5 IR offers too much flexibility (especially considering that IR will only be used for 25 spots on the pro roster (for 24 teams). To be honest, I play in a keeper league with the exact same roster numbers 3/3/3/3F/6/2/5B with only 14 teams, and we only have 3IR. There are only a couple times in the season when all three are being used where at least one of them couldn't be dropped. Again, just my 2 cents...I prefer 3 or 4 max for IR slots.

    One more suggestion, perhaps consider upping hits and blocks to 0.25 each, and reducing plus/minus from 0.5 to 0.25. I'm a fan of having stats that at least have some level of predictability in a keeper...plus/minus is typically team driven so while to some degree it can be predicted -- it is not nearly as linear as goals/assists/ppp/hits/blocks/shots/pims etc.

    Also I disagree with more keepers necessarily being better. I've seen parity get a little out of control and too many keepers makes it extremely difficult to have a competitive league. I like the thought of protecting 20 players, with a 5 player minimum in the minors. The unprotected players that are redrafted helps the bottom feeders get a bit more competitive, it's not going to overthrow the balance of competition, and it makes things interesting. I also don't think that by having less keepers there will be less trading activity..I think there will be possibly even more. Having a keeper limit also makes trade deadlines very interesting. Teams can decide 2 things: 1. Should I mortgage the future for a chance to win now? 2. Should I take on a few extra players to go above the keeper limit for a chance to win now?...The 2nd option is only going to happen with a keeper limit, so in my opinion it actually could spice trading activity up!

    Also for the record, based on an earlier comment, I am not a fan of extra points awarded for defenceman scoring. D-men just have different values -- no need to try and line them up with forwards.


    Finally, thanks a lot for organizing all of this Pengwin. I really am looking forward to this league and competing with some great forum members. Pengwin, this part of the league (setting it up, getting used to fantrax, nitpicking the points calculations, establishing league rules, etc etc etc) is probably going to be frustrating at times but don't worry -- it will all be worth it once this league is off the ground! You're the man!

    Btw: how does the salary cap work? Are player salaries directly aligned with their real world salaries? Are we talking AAV or actual yearly payout?
    WHL - World Hockey League (24-Team Daily H2H)
    Weighted Scoring: G(1),A(1),PPP(0.5),+/-(0.5), SOG/PIM/HIT/BLK(all 0.05), FOW-C(0.01)

    Fall River's Finest
    C(3): Malkin, Kesler, Hanzal
    LW(3): Lucic, Perron, Chimera
    RW(3): Eberle, R. Smith, Doan
    F(3): Stafford (RW), Parenteau (RW), Eakin (C)
    D(6): S. Weber, Suter, Giordano, Yandle, Chara, Polak
    G(1): Miller [+ Niemi, Zatkoff]
    Bench: Filppula (C), Ferland (LW), Stalberg (LW), Weise (RW)

    Prospects(10): Roy (C), Tambellini (C), Andreoff (LW), Jensen (LW), Sorensen (RW), Morin (RW), DeMelo (D), Berube (G), Campbell (G)

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by InForAPenny View Post
    Question regarding drafting timeline. If we are drafting one player per team per day for 35 days, that would mean that at 24 teams we would have to make a selection each hour of the day wouldn't it? Now granted some of the time the picks would be going more quickly, but unless my math skills are off an hour per selection seems pretty quick. If that's normal then ok, just querying.

    Also, I agree with GoNucks, thanks to Pengwin for this league idea.
    In for a Penny makes a good point. I too was wondering how 24 teams would each pick a player every day for 35 days in a row.

    Would it be possible to conduct 5 "live" drafts, one per week for 5 weeks, each one consisting of 7 rounds? For example, if we scheduled a live draft for Saturday Aug 1, beginning at 8:00 pm eastern, we could draft rounds 1-7. The following Saturday Aug 8 we could draft rounds 8-14, then continue each Saturday until Aug 29 when we would have a full roster. I'm new to Fantrax so I am not sure how this would work, but maybe somebody else would be able to let us know if this type of draft could work. Just a thought....

    I would also like to add my thanks to Pengwin for setting this up - it is appreciated very much!

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Pit Bulls View Post
    In for a Penny makes a good point. I too was wondering how 24 teams would each pick a player every day for 35 days in a row.

    Would it be possible to conduct 5 "live" drafts, one per week for 5 weeks, each one consisting of 7 rounds? For example, if we scheduled a live draft for Saturday Aug 1, beginning at 8:00 pm eastern, we could draft rounds 1-7. The following Saturday Aug 8 we could draft rounds 8-14, then continue each Saturday until Aug 29 when we would have a full roster. I'm new to Fantrax so I am not sure how this would work, but maybe somebody else would be able to let us know if this type of draft could work. Just a thought....

    I would also like to add my thanks to Pengwin for setting this up - it is appreciated very much!
    Problem with something like that is that it is going to be tough to get 24 people together for five Saturday nights in a row. Or five nights of any day of the week in a row.

    Writer of the weekly Top 10 column.

    12-team Keeper pool, straight points for forwards & dmen. Goalies get: 2 points per win, 3 per shutout, 1 point per assist & 1 point per shootout loss.

    League champ in 2013 and 2015.

    Top 8 forwards, 5 dmen and 2 goalies count.

    We keep 15 players (any position) plus two rookies.

    Forwards: Pavelski, Kopitar, Voracek, Giroux, Little, Benn, Thornton, Galchenyuk, Eriksson Ek, Lucic, Stepan
    Defence: Letang, Carlson, Ghost, Streit, Green, Lindholm, Giordano, Honka
    Goalies: Price, Murray, Quick, Halak

    My personal blog: http://theryancokeexperience.wordpress.com

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    Default Re: WHL (World Hockey League) - League Settings *Discussion* Thread

    Great to see so many people jumping in to discuss settings so far!
    This shows great league interest!
    I'll tackle some items one-by-one.

    re: +/-
    I've scaled it back from 1.0 to 0.5.
    Thus, a +30 guy gains you +15pts. A -30guy loses you -15pts.
    That's not a ton of overall points.
    Many of you know that I love-love-love +/-... no offense, you joined my pool... you had to know this would be included. LOL.
    A lot of guys like Jon Toews, Patrice Bergeron, Pavel Datsyuk... their +/- is great year-in-year-out a bit because of their team but a LOT because of what THEY do for their line out on the ice.
    Fantasy hockey doesn't really have anything to capture the two-way play of some good forwards & stay-at-home defensemen... except... +/-.
    Deal with it, because it will be included! (and remember that I have scaled it back to 0.5, but no further!!! )

    re: Keeper Amount & Salary Cap
    First, there IS a $100m salary cap for each team based on a player's cap hit.
    This is almost NEVER going to come into play being this high for a 24-team league.
    Essentially, for most teams, there won't seem to be a cap. Teams will struggle to roster $100m for their 25-guys.
    (Think of it this way, if all 30 NHL teams paid a full $70m... that's $2100m total cap hit. Our league allows for 24 teams x $100m = $2400m. i.e. We have more cap space than the NHL - but not more roster space).
    What the $100m cap DOES achieve is this: Some years, some teams will trade away all their prospects for a ton of veterans. I don't want to see any team be overstocked in superstars... one superpower in a league is not good for the league. A salary cap will keep one team from ever being ridiculously dominant.

    re: Keepers. I think 20-25 is the right number. I haven't settled on it yet. Max 15-20 from PRO + 5-10 JR. Max 20-25 total.
    Partial Keepers are also good for league balance.

    re: Goalie Scoring
    With goalies at W=3, SO=5... last year's goalies would shake out to 4 of the top 5 fantasy players. (Price, Holtby, Dubnyk, Rinne).
    With goalies at W=2, SO=3... last year's goalies would shake out to 5 of the top 20 fantasy players.
    With 24 teams, we only can slot in one goalie - and it's fun to have one UBER-HIGH SCORING player.
    If you think about it... a goalie is one of 6 players on the ice for his team at any time.
    Most goalies make about $6m-$7m these days, which is about 10% of team salary.
    So - shouldn't a goalie be worth about 1/6th to 1/10th of overall team value.
    Perhaps we'll have a vote on goalie-scoring to figure out whether people want to weight the single goalie slot really high (W=3, SO=5) or just on par for a good goalie to be with good skaters (W=2, SO=3).

    re: Draft Schedule (Important!)
    I'm moving that to a separate post - since it's a long topic.
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