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Thread: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    You don't stop that.
    That FLA player is trying to shoot through four Avs, which is just dumb.
    You don't try to shoot through four opponents. That is a pass that should've been made.

    It's not a bad rule just because one player in one photo is making the wrong play.
    Sheesh.
    Of course. I wasn't saying the rule is dumb, I was saying the rule won't stop players form collapsing like that. IMO, the collapsing is more of a problem than the player sliding down etc.
    Now more space/PP opportunities/More skill (Sorry Garrison) will IMO help to remove some of that collapsing.

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by roenick27 View Post
    Of course. I wasn't saying the rule is dumb, I was saying the rule won't stop players form collapsing like that. IMO, the collapsing is more of a problem than the player sliding down etc.
    Now more space/PP opportunities/More skill (Sorry Garrison) will IMO help to remove some of that collapsing.
    I don't disagree.
    But I don't think there's anything anybody can do about that.
    (i.e. No point discussing it as a problem if it can't be changed.)
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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    I'm on board with every one of Dobber's suggestions.

    Although, I think the goalie equipment is less of a culprit than many believe.
    They already reduced it, with minimal effect.

    The PP idea is probably my favourite. Although it might have the unintended effect of creating less power plays.

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    I don't disagree.
    But I don't think there's anything anybody can do about that.
    (i.e. No point discussing it as a problem if it can't be changed.)
    I agree and disagree. I think more skill, rushes, PP, better offensive minded d-men as opposed to the standard block shots mentality of d men will all aid in curbing this. That's what I meant by "going around" the problem of blocked shots as opposed to trying to tackle the issue directly

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Just so I'm clear: we're going to improve safety by eliminating one type of blocked shot, while allowing fighting and other types of blocked shots? The safety argument is a red herring, IMO. There is no evidence that laying down blocked shots cause more injuries than any other forum of block shots.

    And I wonder what's next? If you want to increase scoring, ban lifting, pinning or making contact with another player's stick. Now THAT would increase scoring, minimize turn-overs and favour skilled players. [Although I hate this idea even more.]

    And a serious question - hockey scoring is down....why is that a problem? Players are better, the coaching is better. There is nothing wrong with the game, unless the objective is to change hockey into something more appealing for people in Alabama and Texas and Nebraska...

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    I can just see it now. Anytime somebody falls to the ice, the opposing team will blast a puck at him in order to draw a penalty.
    this is a good point. However, players don't really 'fall' to the ice often, and the odds of them falling and it happens right in an obvious shooting line are close to nil. Will refs mess up the odd call? Of course. Do they mess up the odd tripping call though? Absolutely. Holding, hooking, interference - they all get screwed up at times. This is no different.

    I'm just trying to imagine basketball banning attempted shot blocks. Or football banning the D-line from blocking a Qb's pass.
    Or basketball banning zone defenses? Oh wait...


    In order to create more scoring? It seems ridiculous to me.
    How so? Blocking fewer shots, increasing power plays and keeping the better players healthy won't create more scoring?

    And I don't see how you can sell the safety argument if you aren't going to address all the other instances where players leave their feet. They don't just do it to block shots.
    I don't understand this statement.

    And I'd love to see stats on how many shots are blocking laying down versus standing up. My guess is banning laying down blocks will just result in more standing up blocks.
    Hockey players are ALWAYS going to attempt to block shots.
    I'd love to see this stat too. Probably doesn't exist. Yes more stand-up blocks will definitely happen. But those types of blocks are less effective (if they were more effective, then that's what players would be doing). Those types of blocks are safer though, for sure.
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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    Just so I'm clear: we're going to improve safety by eliminating one type of blocked shot, while allowing fighting and other types of blocked shots? The safety argument is a red herring, IMO. There is no evidence that laying down blocked shots cause more injuries than any other forum of block shots.

    And I wonder what's next? If you want to increase scoring, ban lifting, pinning or making contact with another player's stick. Now THAT would increase scoring, minimize turn-overs and favour skilled players. [Although I hate this idea even more.]

    And a serious question - hockey scoring is down....why is that a problem? Players are better, the coaching is better. There is nothing wrong with the game, unless the objective is to change hockey into something more appealing for people in Alabama and Texas and Nebraska...
    it's a problem because the same people who love this kind of hockey say soccer sucks because there's no scoring. Hypocritical.

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post

    And a serious question - hockey scoring is down....why is that a problem? Players are better, the coaching is better. There is nothing wrong with the game, unless the objective is to change hockey into something more appealing for people in Alabama and Texas and Nebraska...
    I agree with you, but it's all driven by marketing. A huge segment of the North American population (the target, I suppose) will not watch a game that struggles to have goals. Goals and Speed are, arguably, the two most important things in selling hockey to the masses, to the point where it catches up in popularity to the other sports. And, of course, more popularity = more revenue.

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Soccer sucks because there's no scoring.

    It also sucks because grown men roll around and cry after a good gust of wind knocks them down.

    Just sayin...


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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    Soccer sucks because there's no scoring.

    It also sucks because grown men roll around and cry after a good gust of wind knocks them down.


    Just sayin...
    and that's different from hockey, how?


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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Quote Originally Posted by eyemissgilmour View Post
    I agree with you, but it's all driven by marketing. A huge segment of the North American population (the target, I suppose) will not watch a game that struggles to have goals. Goals and Speed are, arguably, the two most important things in selling hockey to the masses, to the point where it catches up in popularity to the other sports. And, of course, more popularity = more revenue.
    This. I love hockey, but even I wouldn't mind seeing it open up a bit more. They need more goals (marketing) but I also feel they need to showcase the stars more (marketing and fun IMO). You really saw it this year with scoring being down and the closeness between say Hudler and top end guys like Crosby in the scoring charts. There may be more to it that then meets they eye (and not trying to knock Hudler here), but the stars need to be the stars. They need to score goals and bring fans out of their seats more.

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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    I'm with you on points #5 through #2 - but I just can't get behind the restrictiosn on shot blocking. I think it would cause more headaches to enforce than anything else.

    The other thing I would be in favour of is some penalties (Puck over glass, playing with a broken stick) wouldn't qualify for the full two minutes - they would work like powerplays do now.
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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    For me, the pace of the game is exciting enough.
    The NHL is at its best quality (pace) level in its history (as Toews said in the interview on goal-scoring).

    I think we (as a fan base) do feel a bit annoyed when there are years where we don't get a 100pt-scorer.
    If Sid or OV or Seguin or Tavares were hitting 100pts... and the NHL average was still 5.0 goals per game... I think it would seem "better".

    It's like this "magical" feeling for me to know who the 100+pt guys are...
    (Like there needs to be a 30+ppg scorer in basketball... or the 100 RBI guys in baseball or 50 HRs... or the quest for a 2000yd RB in football... those magic numbers. For hockey players, it's the 100pt scorer.)

    3-on-3 goals & 2min Full PPs would really, really help the scoring of the ELITE players.
    I think that's the easiest fix... a good one.
    And that separation of elite scorers will give the NHL marketability.

    For in-game excitement though, 3-on-3 goals and PP goals aren't EXCITING to me.
    Less players on ice usually leads to a slower game.

    I love even-strength goals!
    Full rush up ice goals!
    Or creative offensive zone cycling & passing goals!

    But if a few more pucks go in by less blocked shots... those aren't exciting... not for me.
    And those aren't even likely to be goals by the elite goal scorers - who pick their corners when they have lanes.
    Still... I would promote more goal-scoring.
    The ebb & flow of a game is the truly exciting part... and that gets better with more shifts of momentum.
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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    I think all of the ideas have some merit but adding them all at once would be chaos and cause too much change for my liking.

    I would like the NHL to crack down on the clutching and grabbing just like they did after the '04 lockout. The problem is the refs don't commit to making all the calls and eventually the clutching and grabbing makes its way back into the game. If the NHL would commit to calling the obstruction, and the refs would actually call it, hopefully it would force a bulk of it out of the game and let the skill players have more ability to make great plays. The lower-tier players would either adapt their games or take a whole bunch of penalties and find themselves out of the NHL.

    Also agree on the goaltender equipment. It should have the same "footprint" to the shooter that they had in the '90s. It can be as thick as you want but pads that are 2" wider don't provide any additional safety, they're not even covering the goalie's legs!

    Not sure how I feel about the 2 minute powerplay. I fear that making a penalty a more severe consequence the referees will stop calling the penalties the league is asking them to call under point #5, especially late in games. Nothing drives me crazier than the concept, in any sport, that the rules should be called differently late in a game, or in the playoffs, because calling a penalty means "the refs are deciding the games". Also, a full 2 minute powerplay means special teams will become even more important, It would be interesting to see how that affects star player ice-time. Presumably they'd get more PP time, but their team would also have more PK time, which few stars are apart of.

    3-on-3 would certainly increase scoring and point totals for the stars but it feels gimmicky to me. As an aside I find it strange that those people who hate the shootout to decide games are all in favour of 3-on-3. At the end of the day hockey is a 5-on-5 game so both are gimmicky in my mind, the upside to the shootout is at least it doesn't pad scorer's numbers, although it pads goalie wins.

    Finally, I can't get behind banning shot blocking. First, I think it would be very difficult to write, and then consistently enforce, a rule banning shot blocking. Pengwin had some reasonable suggestions but even some of the still photos its hard to judge if a player is breaking his rule. Now try and make an NHL ref make a call from 40 feet at full-speed. More importantly I don't think it is necessary. If they commit to reducing clutching and reduce goalie equipment I think we'd have enough of an uptick in scoring to keep the league happy.
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    Default Re: Dobber's ways to increase NHL scoring

    Simply go back to the zero tolerance attitude the league set up 2005 for penalties. It took some time to establish it, but it worked. Nowadays there's absolutely nothing left of it.

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