Jake Gardiner -rep for help!

[sammynos]

What do we think this guy is capable of now that Babcock is in town? I have seen some posts ranking him above others and then also seen posts saying his game isn't great. I have him in one of the leagues in the sig (Hamilton Mustangs), counting all the usual categories plus hits/blks.

As it sits he is my most expensive Dman in this league. I have Honka, Klefbom, Beaulieu, Koekkoek, Ouellet, Pokka, Folin, Bigras, Pysyk in farm system. Some of those guys are obviously ready sooner than others.

This is a team that finished 2nd to last and has the 2nd overall pick for this year.

So...back to the original question. Does Babcock make Gardiner better and bring him back to a level worth owning for another 4 years at 4.050 a year?

Thanks!

[Dennis4022]

His cap hit might look ugly right now, but 2 years from now it could appear like a steal. I own him in some leagues and i guess we all expected him to impress us earlier, but you have to keep in mind that he's only 24. That's still extremely young for a defender.

I don't necessarily think that Babcock will make him better, i just think he will keep improving just because he gains experience in the NHL.

For me he's still a 50 point+ defender who just needs a little bit more time. I'd hang on him.

[Bass56]

Expensive, yes. But as I see it, you need him. In his 3 years in the NHL (I don't count the season where he played 12 games), he's hit 30+ pts twice.
At 24 y/o, I would expect him to keep producing at least 30 pts per season and then some. The Babcock effect can help IMO, but what he needs more is some room to grow. If Phaneuf gets traded, I think it will help him alot.

If I were you, I would hold on to him, at least another year.

What D's are currently available in your pool just for kicks?

[sammynos]

If I were you, I would hold on to him, at least another year.

What D's are currently available in your pool just for kicks?

Tough question to answer fully. League has RFA bidding starting on June 1, so technically any Dman who is an RFA is up for grabs with the right bid and compensation. After that, UFA's become available via FA if they don't sign prior to June 20.

Wideman, Faulk, Boychuk, Stralman, Niskanen, Suter are the current guys that I would see worthy as of right now, but some of those guys are mucho $$

[Daydream Nation]

I gave up on him last offseason and I haven't looked back.

[sammynos]

Hm, interesting points. Seems like a sea divided a little on those who he hasn't helped and those who still have some faith.

I might have to hang onto him and see how the season begins to shake out. At the very least, his SOG Hits and Blks benefit my team which struggled in those categories last season.

[Dennis4022]

I gave up on him last offseason and I haven't looked back.

Not yet. I'm not saying you will, but the NHL was full of defender who didn't produce until they were older then 24. Some weren't even in the league at that age.

Just to mention a few:

Duncan Keith
Marek Zidlicky
Brian Rafalski
Sergej Gonchar
Rob Blake
Scott Niedermayer
Kimmo Timonen
Zdeno Chara

I wouldn't give up so early on a defender who has so much upside and who is playing in the NHL. The points will come.

[YzermansLegacy]

Dennis makes a really fair point and we're usually all a little guilty of giving up on Dmen earlier than we should. That said, his list of guys are all retired or quite old (keith aside). I wonder if the game has changed enough (in terms of points dispersion) that those guys will be the exception moving forward?

Regardless... I'm just simply not a fan of Gardiner at all. No analytical proof or anything just my own eye test... where I'm just left unimpressed often.

With salaries playing a part, I would argue even more to move on from Gards. You may need a cheap vet to plug and play for a year but I think Murray and both Klef and Beaulieu are close to being productive and you've got some fantastic (Honka) and some intriguing (Pokka, Koekkoek, X, Bigras) options for down the road.

If you could move him for a cheaper/comparable salaried guy, I personally would seriously consider it.

[The Bottlenecker]

I wouldn't give up so early on a defender who has so much upside and who is playing in the NHL. The points will come.

I would say two 30+ point seasons is pretty good on such a bad team. As the Leafs get better, so too should Gardiner.

[fungchen3]

Babcock will try to get the most out of Gardiner, but if he continues to make questionable plays in his own zone, he's not long for Toronto. I think Gardiner has 50 point talent but due to the amount of trust his coaches have in his overall game, I'm thinking he's still a 30-40 guy for now.

[Dennis4022]

Dennis makes a really fair point and we're usually all a little guilty of giving up on Dmen earlier than we should. That said, his list of guys are all retired or quite old (keith aside).

Quite easy to explain, i went through the all time point leaders. Wanted to make sure to mention the best of the best.

But i can add some younger guys:

Dustin Byfuglien
Victor Hedman (he was younger when he started producing, but he came in the league really early. Took him 5 years.)
PK Subban (was 23 when he started)
Kris Letang
Mark Streit
Mark Giordano

Overall it's quite obvious that there are some exceptions who are really young and already showing their offensive skills, while most need some time. That includes age, but also time in the NHL.

[sammynos]

I would say two 30+ point seasons is pretty good on such a bad team. As the Leafs get better, so too should Gardiner.

Pretty valid point. Looks like his PP time has steadily inclined over the years too. Seems like he deserves some more time to evaluate and develop in what should be a more strict system.

[butch]

A gm in one of my keeper leagues was going to outright drop him but posted that he'd take best offered pick before going that route .

I snagged him for a 5th rounder and more than willing to stay patient .

[fungchen3]

I snagged him for a 5th rounder and more than willing to stay patient .

If you can stash him and be patient, this was an absolute steal - even if he ends up a 40 pointer.

[Big Baby]

Just my opinion but i think that Gardiner will be Toronto's best and most complete defensemen for the next few years, (unless they get Hannifin)

He has all the tools and under Babacock, he will finally meet the potential we all saw a couple years ago in the playoffs.

There is no question of the kids talent. For him it seems mental. Babcock will fix Gardiner.