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Thread: Oliver Kylington

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    Default Oliver Kylington

    I'm looking for someone more in know than I may be (or not) to shed some light on why exactly this kids stock has dropped so much in the last year or so.

    Once ranked to go early in the 1st round of the 2015 draft, he's now ranked by most as a mid to late 1st rounder. I believe I've even seen a ranking or two with him as an early 2nd rounder! When he was 15-16 he was getting some a hype that eventually went to Eichel as a threat to Mcdavids #1 status and now he's an afterthought for some.

    I'm just wondering what it is that had scouts drooling 12-18 months ago, but now have them placing him lower and lower in rankings. Any thoughts are appreciated.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    simple: tremendous skill, but no hockey brain.
    these guys come with red flags because you can improve your skillset, but you rarely improve how you see/react to the game around you and it limits your ultimate effectiveness on the ice.

    see Matt Dumba.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    I'm actually wondering the same thing. He was a "can't miss" this time last year and has previously been compared to Ekman-Larsson. Why the big drop?
    8-GM / WK-H2H
    Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
    D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
    Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10


    Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
    Captain: Matthews
    (F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
    (D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun,
    Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
    (G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    I mean I know he's a great skater but needs work in his own zone (like many his age). I just have a suspicion that some team is gonna get real lucky with this guy falling late.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    This happens sometimes with big, smooth skating dmen. They get hyped early on because of their size and skating, but as they are observed more closely people start to notice some major flaws in their game. I'm not saying that Kylington is another Nick Ebert or Sean Day, but I don't think he was as good as people originally thought he might be.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    This happens sometimes with big, smooth skating dmen. They get hyped early on because of their size and skating, but as they are observed more closely people start to notice some major flaws in their game. I'm not saying that Kylington is another Nick Ebert or Sean Day, but I don't think he was as good as people originally thought he might be.
    Problem is that he isn't big. 6'0/180.. A lot of guys with the same season (and less pre-season hype) would get a lot more leeway if they were 6'2.

    So he's not big, he was expected to be more offensive than he was, and he bounced down from SEL to Allsvenskan during the year. Also scouts have wondered about his hockey brain, as 27Blue noted. Is that a permanent flaw? Or just a 17yo kid playing in a men's league?

    As a fun experiment, compare Kylington's numbers to Karlsson's. Both are May birthdays, and Kylington's SHL production in his 17yo (draft) season (5 pts in 18 gp) looks pretty similar to Karlsson's 18 yo (draft+1) season (10 pts in 45 gp).

    Difference is, Karlsson had no hype and was a late-riser, while Kylington started the year with hype and disappointed relative to it.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    I feel the need to point out that I don't mean to set any expectations on Kylington that he will perform like Karlsson. I haven't watched OK at all.

    Just wanted to highlight the effect size and expectations can have on a player's "draft stock".

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    Quote Originally Posted by ultrawhiteness View Post
    Problem is that he isn't big. 6'0/180.. A lot of guys with the same season (and less pre-season hype) would get a lot more leeway if they were 6'2.

    So he's not big, ...
    That's my bad. I had heard the OEL comparisons so I assumed he was taller than he actually is.

    Anyway, regardless of his size, my point remains the same in that some dmen get early hype for their natural abilities and athleticism and then after further, more scrutinized viewings, holes in their game are uncovered.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    I guess this is one of the reasons I don't like a small percentage of fantasy leagues where prospects can be drafted as early as three years prior to being drafted into the pros. Silly to try to evaluate a 15 year old and then hang on to them for a decade waiting for them to develop.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    Quote Originally Posted by rainydrinkwater View Post
    I guess this is one of the reasons I don't like a small percentage of fantasy leagues where prospects can be drafted as early as three years prior to being drafted into the pros. Silly to try to evaluate a 15 year old and then hang on to them for a decade waiting for them to develop.
    The league in my sig is like that. It has its pros and cons. Personally, I like it because it is exciting to draft a prospect so far from the NHL and watch him develop into hopefully a fantasy-worthy asset by the time you have to make a decision to keep or release him. Truth is that probably 85% of the prospects drafted so far out are not kept on our main roster by the time they must graduate. Some do, like McDavid, Eichel, and Mackinnon (those are the three most recent examples), but it is pretty easy to know three years out that there's a good chance those players will be decent. It is more rewarding when you draft a player like Gaudreau or Monahan who surprise you a bit by becoming fantasy-worth sooner than you'd think.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    Anyway, regardless of his size, my point remains the same in that some dmen get early hype for their natural abilities and athleticism and then after further, more scrutinized viewings, holes in their game are uncovered.
    I totally agree with you here. The "Bouwmeester-Phaneuf Principle", lol.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    Quote Originally Posted by ultrawhiteness View Post
    I totally agree with you here. The "Bouwmeester-Phaneuf Principle", lol.
    Bouwmester and Erik Johnson are the two best examples, imo, of smooth skating dmen who were over-hyped for their raw potential and then never really developed into the offensive player people thought they could become. Both are decent NHLers, but nothing compared to hype. I fear the same thing is going to happen to Seth Jones. I had concerns about him before he was drafted, and it is looking like he can't quite translate his raw skills to NHL success, at least not match the expectations. It is still too early to say for sure that Jones won't become an offensive juggernaut, but his lack of production so far is concerning (and not entirely because of Josi and Weber either). I don't watch a lot of Nashville games, but I have watched enough (and have read what others have said about him) to say that he seems lost much of the time in the NHL.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
    1 pt/G or A, 2 pts/W, 1 pt/OTL, 1 pt/SO

    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
    Prospects of Note: L. Stankoven, J. Lekkerimaki, D. Yurov, B. Clarke

    League has been running continuously since 1997-98

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    Bouwmester and Erik Johnson are the two best examples, imo, of smooth skating dmen who were over-hyped for their raw potential and then never really developed into the offensive player people thought they could become. Both are decent NHLers, but nothing compared to hype. I fear the same thing is going to happen to Seth Jones. I had concerns about him before he was drafted, and it is looking like he can't quite translate his raw skills to NHL success, at least not match the expectations. It is still too early to say for sure that Jones won't become an offensive juggernaut, but his lack of production so far is concerning (and not entirely because of Josi and Weber either). I don't watch a lot of Nashville games, but I have watched enough (and have read what others have said about him) to say that he seems lost much of the time in the NHL.
    Erik Johnson is a great example, Jack Johnson too. Adam Larsson might be, we'll see. But Seth Jones? I'd give him some more time. He's seemed great whenever I've seen him. A guy I am hesitant to overhype based on his tools is Darnell Nurse, and I have the same thoughts on young Haydn Fleury.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    I could see the connection of Johnson and J-Bo to Kylington in terms of not being able to put together the toolset that seemed apparent at an early age.

    Seth Jones has at least shown me flashes of jaw dropping skill that I didn't see from EJ or J-Bo in their first few years.

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    Default Re: Oliver Kylington

    Erik Johnson was a beast in college. He had an NHL body and looked like he was going to anchor an NHL blue line for sure. Jones has more raw talent than Johnson, I just think he needs time. But both, Johnson and Jones have/had more offensive talent than Bouwmeester or Kylington. If Jones wasn't stuck behind 2 Norris-caliber defensemen and another offensive hot shot like Ellis, he'd be developing like Dougie Hamilton, which is pretty darn good. Not everyone is going to jump into the league and produce like Phaneuf, Karlsson and Ekblad. Pietrangelo, Ekman-Larsson, Shattenkirk, Hedman, etc. all took time.
    8-GM / WK-H2H
    Forwards: G=2, A=1, PP/SH= +1, GWG= +2, Shootout G=1, HT= +1
    D-Men/Captain: G=3/A=2
    Goalies: W=3, OTL=1, SO= +2, SV= .10


    Start = 13F, 6D, 2G / Keep 44 (3G)
    Captain: Matthews
    (F): MacKinnon, Pasta, Marner, Rantanen, Malkin, Barkov, M.Tkachuk, W.Nylander, Pettersson, Gaudreau, Laine, Keller, Miller, B.Tkachuk, Stutzle, DeBrincat, L.Raymond, K.Johnson, Cozens, Quinn, Guenther, Kulich, Cooley
    (D): Makar, Dahlin, Q.Hughes, Ekblad, Rielly, Werenski, Letang, Jones, Chychrun,
    Seider, Edvinsson, Jiricek, Korchinski, Mintyukov, Ceulemans, Hutson
    (G): Shesterkin, Demko, Vejmelka

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