Dobber leagues - matched settings from next year?

[horrorfan]

The fact that other categories (particularly SOG and +/-) count the same as Goals and Assists is ridiculous. It should either be points only or there should be weighting. And while I don't like weekly moves in general, I'd prefer it over daily moves where there can be endless cycling in and out of players such that it becomes an exercise of schedule planning more than running a team skillfully. Sure - a "real" team can put players in and out of the line-up, but that's when all players are on the same team. In fantasy hockey it shouldn't be allowed. And FA moves should be limited - one per month, to reduce dart throwing and to make there be more insight involved in picking up players. Also, limiting FA moves encourages trading, which was sorely lacking from the league.

For discussion purposes, I'd like to comment on your suggestions in general.

Firstly, in Yahoo, I don't believe you can weigh categories in a roto league, only points leagues (including H2H). So, really the only way to weigh categories is to add a redundant one like Points, in order to give offensive players more value. As the Dobber leagues have always been roto, and people tend to prefer that, I can't see it changing to points only.

As for weekly with a one move per month limit, wouldn't that make the league boring? That would essentially be just setting your lineups (once per week) with the occasional trade. Perhaps you like that and that's fine, but that would be boring for me. I'd rather daily because it keeps you active, that's part of the fun of fantasy hockey, the activity. I enjoy the Dobber leagues because of the competition and the chance to move up the ranks. The part I don't like about them is the weekly aspect, because I lose interest since you don't do as much on a regular basis. And when we/I have other leagues that are daily, then I would tend to focus more attention on them.

I accept people liking limiting moves but I would rather unlimited moves but with maximum games. That way, everyone is on a level playing field but you are not restricted on improving your team, and you don't have to plan for an unknown situation in the future. If I suddenly get a ton of injuries at the start of the season, I don't feel I should be disadvantaged because I need to watch my moves in case I need them in February. Making more moves doesn't necessarily give you an advantage, but it does give you the flexibility to manage your team how you see fit. Some people like to make less moves, other make more. Sure, limited moves could help trading, but I'm not sure if that is always the case. I think the overall settings (e.g. roster structure, size of bench) and the managers themselves determine how much trading happens.

[ericdaoust]

I'm in a one-year league (same size, similar settings) that has unlimited pickups. This league had like 12 trades this year. For many in that league it's their one big league that they are a part of so they take it very seriously.

[RizzeeDizzee]

For discussion purposes, I'd like to comment on your suggestions in general.

As for weekly with a one move per month limit, wouldn't that make the league boring? That would essentially be just setting your lineups (once per week) with the occasional trade. Perhaps you like that and that's fine, but that would be boring for me. I'd rather daily because it keeps you active, that's part of the fun of fantasy hockey, the activity. I enjoy the Dobber leagues because of the competition and the chance to move up the ranks. The part I don't like about them is the weekly aspect, because I lose interest since you don't do as much on a regular basis. And when we/I have other leagues that are daily, then I would tend to focus more attention on them.

My current favorite league gets around this by allowing daily roster moves, but with the wrinkle that once a player is taken out of the line-up he has to stay on the bench for a full week. Basically, we have that rather than an IR. And we have a deeper bench (23 in active line-up, 9 on bench). As someone who's done fantasy hockey in all ways, shapes, and forms since 1995, I've found it to be the best way to approach a divisive (as confirmed ITT) issue.

Oh, and one last rant - Yahoo fantasy hockey bites in general. All my other leagues use different sites. My current favorite is cbssports.

[horrorfan]

My current favorite league gets around this by allowing daily roster moves, but with the wrinkle that once a player is taken out of the line-up he has to stay on the bench for a full week. Basically, we have that rather than an IR. And we have a deeper bench (23 in active line-up, 9 on bench). As someone who's done fantasy hockey in all ways, shapes, and forms since 1995, I've found it to be the best way to approach a divisive (as confirmed ITT) issue.

Oh, and one last rant - Yahoo fantasy hockey bites in general. All my other leagues use different sites. My current favorite is cbssports.

How do you manage that (the bolded)?

[RizzeeDizzee]

I'm in a one-year league (same size, similar settings) that has unlimited pickups. This league had like 12 trades this year. For many in that league it's their one big league that they are a part of so they take it very seriously.

This also touches on a good point, which is that I'd bet that very few of the Dobber staff consider the Expert League as "their one big league". And I think that stems from the lack of coverage on the site, which in turn would encourage accountability and increased commitment.

I'm not quite sure why Angus was able to do so much to publicize the league while in the same role as Steve.

[RizzeeDizzee]

How do you manage that (the bolded)?

Easy - accountability and a commissioner.

[horrorfan]

This also touches on a good point, which is that I'd bet that very few of the Dobber staff consider the Expert League as "their one big league". And I think that stems from the lack of coverage on the site, which in turn would encourage accountability and increased commitment.

I'm not quite sure why Angus was able to do so much to publicize the league while in the same role as Steve, yet he's not. But I suppose he can answer that if he chooses to do so.

I think this goes back even further to when Dobber left, or was still playing but was struggling to be committed. I remember asking about announcing winners for all divisions, publicising etc but it took awhile (with reminders). It seemed to be forgotten a bit, unfortunately. And then with the changeovers, it kind of got lost amongst other news/updates/projects etc.

[ericdaoust]

This also touches on a good point, which is that I'd bet that very few of the Dobber staff consider the Expert League as "their one big league". And I think that stems from the lack of coverage on the site, which in turn would encourage accountability and increased commitment.

I'm not quite sure why Angus was able to do so much to publicize the league while in the same role as Steve, yet he's not. But I suppose he can answer that if he chooses to do so.

As I mentioned previously, it takes a huge commitment to make this league such a big deal. But after all this was a Dobber thing and became an Angus thing. It's been handed down a couple times. And like I said it might simply not be in the cards anymore when the people involved (myself included) have other leagues that are a bigger priority.

[ericdaoust]

Although I must say the draft night chat trainwreck is always one of my highlights of the year...

[RizzeeDizzee]

As I mentioned previously, it takes a huge commitment to make this league such a big deal. But after all this was a Dobber thing and became an Angus thing. It's been handed down a couple times. And like I said it might simply not be in the cards anymore when the people involved (myself included) have other leagues that are a bigger priority.

Out of curiosity, what would you consider the commitment required? There were draft recaps and thoughts on good/bad picks, updates in the ramblings, and periodic columns during the season. Am I missing something? And I don't mean that sarcastically.

[ericdaoust]

Out of curiosity, what would you consider the commitment required? There were draft recaps and thoughts on good/bad picks, updates in the ramblings, and periodic columns during the season. Am I missing something? And I don't mean that sarcastically.

I think it requires more of a year-round commitment to this being a big deal in all kinds of ways. The updates currently provided are fine but I don't think it sticks in anyone's mind. I just don't get the sense that one of the main feature attractions at Dobberhockey is hosting the Experts League. Again, I don't blame any of the people currently at the head because this has become a last-minute thing in recent years with no Dobber presence.

Now that it's been handed down a few times the people running it are no longer the ones with the initial vision. It's not their baby.

I'm thinking more big picture here...

[horrorfan]

I think it requires more of a year-round commitment to this being a big deal in all kinds of ways. The updates currently provided are fine but I don't think it sticks in anyone's mind. I just don't get the sense that one of the main feature attractions at Dobberhockey is hosting the Experts League. Again, I don't blame any of the people currently at the head because this has become a last-minute thing in recent years with no Dobber presence.

Now that it's been handed down a few times the people running it are no longer the ones with the initial vision. It's not their baby.

I'm thinking more big picture here...

I'm curious why this needs to be someone's baby? We have the organisation to at least get the leagues set up, so really all it needs are committed managers and an agreed structure and settings. Then we can link the leagues and carry on like this season. Given that it's March, I don't see how this can't be looked into so that come next season it'll be ready to go.

Once we have this structure in place, then we/whoever can try to get more publicity (not trying to make it big necessarily, but to increase interest, especially in the entry leagues).

As asked above, what do the Expert managers want for your league? Agree on settings (for the majority) and then see who is interested in returning. Then maybe new writers can join, and if needed, promoted a few from Pro.

[ericdaoust]

I'm curious why this needs to be someone's baby? We have the organisation to at least get the leagues set up, so really all it needs are committed managers and an agreed structure and settings. Then we can link the leagues and carry on like this season. Given that it's March, I don't see how this can't be looked into so that come next season it'll be ready to go.

Once we have this structure in place, then we/whoever can try to get more publicity (not trying to make it big necessarily, but to increase interest, especially in the entry leagues).

As asked above, what do the Expert managers want for your league? Agree on settings (for the majority) and then see who is interested in returning. Then maybe new writers can join, and if needed, promoted a few from Pro.

In order for this system of leagues to be what it used to be it needs more than just an agreed upon set of settings. Sure you'll have people join but if you want actual hardcore participation it takes more than that. I have been much more active in this year's Experts League than I have been in the past but I have been far from hardcore and have rarely seeked out trades.

I think the current settings are fine as far as getting people to participate daily in some fashion. I just think to take it to another level it goes beyond settings. It's more about people.

[horrorfan]

In order for this system of leagues to be what it used to be it needs more than just an agreed upon set of settings. Sure you'll have people join but if you want actual hardcore participation it takes more than that. I have been much more active in this year's Experts League than I have been in the past but I have been far from hardcore and have rarely seeked out trades.

I think the current settings are fine as far as getting people to participate daily in some fashion. I just think to take it to another level it goes beyond settings. It's more about people.

Ok that's fine, if the settings work for you guys then it can be suggested for the other leagues. But for the people, what about my suggestions that haven't been addressed yet? What about other writers - have they been asked and would be interested? What about promoting more from the Pro division? I do know that the Pro has some committed managers so that would help.

I do understand and appreciate that these leagues are not the most important (heck, probably for most of us, even before, it wasn't), but I think it can be improved with some tweaking. If some guys aren't that interested, then fine, they don't have to return. Heck, if you need half a dozen or more committed managers to make it worthwhile in the Expert, then choose the top x of the Pro to come up. Think of the trickle down effect. Suddenly you are top x of a division and now you get a chance to compete with the best. And then in the Entry, you are top x and are promoted to the Pro. That would help with commitment. Then with some promotion in the summer, get more people to join the entry leagues.

[ericdaoust]

Ok that's fine, if the settings work for you guys then it can be suggested for the other leagues. But for the people, what about my suggestions that haven't been addressed yet? What about other writers - have they been asked and would be interested? What about promoting more from the Pro division? I do know that the Pro has some committed managers so that would help.

I do understand and appreciate that these leagues are not the most important (heck, probably for most of us, even before, it wasn't), but I think it can be improved with some tweaking. If some guys aren't that interested, then fine, they don't have to return. Heck, if you need half a dozen or more committed managers to make it worthwhile in the Expert, then choose the top x of the Pro to come up. Think of the trickle down effect. Suddenly you are top x of a division and now you get a chance to compete with the best. And then in the Entry, you are top x and are promoted to the Pro. That would help with commitment. Then with some promotion in the summer, get more people to join the entry leagues.

I'd love to see it but again it comes down to having someone grab the bull by the horns to make this happen. Right now our setup involves the "oh shit the season starts in a week and we don't have an Experts League yet" post followed by someone agreeing to organize everything followed by hopefully many staff members joining. No chance to bring in Pro League standouts or even ensure that the various leagues are consistent in that timeframe.

If someone steps up then anything is possible. I'll continue being in the Experts League but cannot be that guy that steps up due to already being stretched very thin from the various roles that I have at the site.

One area where I could help is creating pages to post the leaderboards of the various leagues over the years. That would be a start if we can get this thing rocking again.