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Thread: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

  1. #46
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    Don't see why he would lie about that...

    Anyway it's just common sense - there are so many theories out there that a small handful among thousands are bound to be right.
    Why did the creators of LOST lie about knowing where their show was headed? It gives people peace of mind knowing that all this stuff is planned out. Whether or not it actually is, is another question.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    That's if you believe the man, which I don't.
    This is where you'd have to get into the "books" to know him.
    Unlike the show, the books are absolutely littered with clues... subtle clues, obvious clues... but GRRM has a list and he'll get to them ALL.
    The books have been praised not only for their story but for their completion.
    Martin makes almost no mistakes.
    He's set up so many mysteries... half have already been played into (Red Wedding, for example)... but some have not.

    For example, "show" watchers don't know about the "Three Dragon Riders" or Dany's visions in the House of the Undying (HotU)... but Martin sets these kind of things up all over the books and then DOES eventually play them out.
    He CAN'T change tact at this point because he's set up the clues so thoroughly that he would be easily called out for making his first mis-steps if he does change the endings.

    Simply put - it's something that the show-watchers don't know... that GRRM has this story so thoroughly set-up and established.
    It ain't LOST... there aren't different endings that can be chosen.
    There's one ending that he's planned... and when it's revealed, every subtle hint in the book... people will say "Ahhhh, yes... makes sense... I didn't see it... but yes, makes sense."

    The story is going to go down as one of the best in literary history EVER... if he stays with his intended ending.
    He knows this.
    The ending won't be changed.
    (He's deceptive in his answers, it's true... but that's more for the sake of throwing somebody OFF his intended finish. ex. fAegon.)
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    This is where you'd have to get into the "books" to know him.
    Unlike the show, the books are absolutely littered with clues... subtle clues, obvious clues... but GRRM has a list and he'll get to them ALL.
    The books have been praised not only for their story but for their completion.
    Martin makes almost no mistakes.
    He's set up so many mysteries... half have already been played into (Red Wedding, for example)... but some have not.

    For example, "show" watchers don't know about the "Three Dragon Riders" or Dany's visions in the House of the Undying (HotU)... but Martin sets these kind of things up all over the books and then DOES eventually play them out.
    He CAN'T change tact at this point because he's set up the clues so thoroughly that he would be easily called out for making his first mis-steps if he does change the endings.

    Simply put - it's something that the show-watchers don't know... that GRRM has this story so thoroughly set-up and established.
    It ain't LOST... there aren't different endings that can be chosen.
    There's one ending that he's planned... and when it's revealed, every subtle hint in the book... people will say "Ahhhh, yes... makes sense... I didn't see it... but yes, makes sense."

    The story is going to go down as one of the best in literary history EVER... if he stays with his intended ending.
    He knows this.
    The ending won't be changed.
    (He's deceptive in his answers, it's true... but that's more for the sake of throwing somebody OFF his intended finish. ex. fAegon.)
    I just don't see it. It's entirely possible that the dude has it all mapped out to a T but the thing about good writing is that you can setup all these clues and it can lead to different places and different interpretations.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    I just don't see it. It's entirely possible that the dude has it all mapped out to a T but the thing about good writing is that you can setup all these clues and it can lead to different places and different interpretations.

    SEMI-SPOILER ALERT.
    [There's not really any major reveals in the text below, in the link YES though... proceed at your own risk.]

    Well, if you dare to play the "book" explorer for a while, you can visit this page for prophecies that GRRM has dropped in the books.
    Most every one has enough hints... some are obvious, some are subtle... but eventually Martin does get to revealing them/ incorporating them in the overall story.
    (Of these... maybe 1 in 20 actually comes through in the HBO shows)
    http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/
    The deepest among them are probably Daenerys visions in HotU... and the show doesn't even go there.
    But if you even briefly looked over this list - it might give you some appreciation for the magnitude of prophecies he alludes to with stories within the story.
    It's not a couple hints... it's 100s. (show doesn't capture this)
    Once there are hundreds of hints... you just can't change the ending dramatically.
    His ending has to justify each of the unresolved.open clues - which is only possible if he stays on course.

    As an example of GRRM story Prophecies playing out... I can tell you two characters that WILL DIE... possibly in the show this year... and they are still alive in the books!!!
    PM me if you really want to know.


    BTW. Does R+L=J mean anything to you? (honestly? It's considered a BIG deal among the book-reader world.)
    And that isn't the "end game", but it is a major cog towards it.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    SPOILER ALERT.
    Well, if you dare to play the "book" explorer for a while, you can visit this page for prophecies that GRRM has dropped in the books.
    Most every one has enough hints... some are obvious, some are subtle... but eventually Martin does get to revealing them/ incorporating them in the overall story.

    (Again, of these... maybe 1 in 20 actually comes through in the story)
    http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/

    BTW. Does R+L=J mean anything to you? (honestly)
    Nope.
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  6. #51
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    You should read the books!
    I think you would like them!
    [As a deeply analytical thinker... I believe you will!!!]

    (though, DO wait until hockey season is over!!!)
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    At his core, GRRM is a book writer... and that should be his legacy.
    I really don't see him as a guy that would sell his story ending for $$$ (i.e. Grant HBO use of his story-ending).

    I do think he has conveyed (honestly) how he intends to end it... as I think HBO would need direction in not killing off KEY characters.

    I'm sure contractually two things are covered between HBO/GRRM:
    1) GRRM has truthfully conveyed to HBO how he intends to end it. And this honestly is provided simply so that HBO may work towards a similar finish with key characters alive.
    2) That HBO (contractually) can not allude to the ending or use his official ending unless approved by GRRM. (and I honestly don't think GRRM will let them use his main ending... he'll grant them use of an alternate... and I think the world will be OK with that.)

    Writers... they... they are a prideful bunch and VERY committed to their loyal following of readers.
    I just don't see him selling out the ending for HBO's use.
    At the end of most lives, I think people want to be remember as being somebody special & faithful... not a sell-out.
    For that reason, I really truly believe that IF the show ends first (which it seems to be the case)... the ending will not be GRRM's original, planned book ending.

    (and I think there is MANY an ending for this story. I think that HBO will probably be granted the shiny-happy ending: i.e. Jon Snow on the throne.
    As for the book-ending, I think it'll have the modern-day realist ending, with the key protaganists potentially biting it in sacrifice and some other more flawed character (you know who) atop the throne. i.e. NOT shiny/happy).

    I could chat asoiaf for-EVAH!

    Well, there a a couple of things that I'll take issue with here.

    The first is that Martin wouldn't do something based on $$$. We're talking about a guy who never met an appearance fee that he wouldn't eagerly acccept. The guy is bouncing around from fantasy-cons to sci-fi cons to book signings all the time. It's one of the (many) impediments to his progress on his books.

    I really wouldn't put anything past Martin at this point. He's a fine writer, put he's definitely not my idea of a paragon of virtue. I think you'd be wise to temper your faith in him somewhat.

    The second is that whether or not Martin substantially alters his ending from that of the series is for practical purposes moot. Perception is everything, and also there are many now who predict that Martin will ultimately "pull a Robert Jordan" and never finish the series.
    12-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, R. Johansen, Guentzel (LW), Perrault (LW)
    LW: Forsberg, Ehlers (RW), A. Lee, Tatar (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, Drouin (LW), Pastrnak, Nyquist (LW)
    D: Subban, Yandle, Werenski
    G: M.Jones, Bobrovsky, Hellebuyck, Hutton

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  8. #53
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    You should read the books!
    I think you would like them!
    [As a deeply analytical thinker... I believe you will!!!]

    (though, DO wait until hockey season is over!!!)
    I have every intent to read the books but not until the show is done. I am a stickler for doing film/TV before book. I have never enjoyed going the other way and I'm not trying it now. I want to enjoy the show for what it is and then take the plunge with the books.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    That's fair... but you can't really credibly comment on the show vis-a-vis the book unless you've actually read the books. Stating what your "friends think" doesn't count :P

    I hope you're prepared to wait for a LONG time...

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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    That's fair... but you can't really credibly comment on the show vis-a-vis the book unless you've actually read the books. Stating what your "friends think" doesn't count :P

    I hope you're prepared to wait for a LONG time...
    Nothing that I have commented on goes beyond my realm of knowledge so I think I've been perfectly fair in my comments.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    I have every intent to read the books but not until the show is done. I am a stickler for doing film/TV before book. I have never enjoyed going the other way and I'm not trying it now. I want to enjoy the show for what it is and then take the plunge with the books.
    FWIW.
    I watched the first two seasons of the show -getting hooked.
    Then...
    I read the first three books.
    Then watched the third season.
    Then read the fourth book.
    Then RE-WATCHED the first THREE SEASONS while flipping / tagging my books!
    Current reading the fifth book (over halfway done).
    On Wednesday, hopefully I get Season 4 via Netflix to watch.

    The books & shows... I don't think it matters which you do first... or you can do them same time/ concurrently.
    I don't find it strips anything away from one or the other.
    The books have a depth that the show doesn't capture.
    The shows have the excitement (eye candy) that the books can't do.

    I do believe the story is SO deep that the most devout follower should do at least one re-watch WITH a book in tow (to follow along).
    The reason is that it just interesting to see what the writers CHOOSE for importance.
    And incredibly, a lot of the key dialogue comes word-for-word from the book.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    FWIW.
    I watched the first two seasons of the show -getting hooked.
    Then...
    I read the first three books.
    Then watched the third season.
    Then read the fourth book.
    Then RE-WATCHED the first THREE SEASONS while flipping / tagging my books!
    Current reading the fifth book (over halfway done).
    On Wednesday, hopefully I get Season 4 via Netflix to watch.

    The books & shows... I don't think it matters which you do first... or you can do them same time/ concurrently.
    I don't find it strips anything away from one or the other.
    The books have a depth that the show doesn't capture.
    The shows have the excitement (eye candy) that the books can't do.

    I do believe the story is SO deep that the most devout follower should do at least one re-watch WITH a book in tow (to follow along).
    The reason is that it just interesting to see what the writers CHOOSE for importance.
    And incredibly, a lot of the key dialogue comes word-for-word from the book.
    It matters an incredible amount to me. I have not enjoyed much of anything I've read first then watched. You won't sell me on starting.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    It matters an incredible amount to me. I have not enjoyed much of anything I've read first then watched. You won't sell me on starting.
    Ah, but have you enjoyed reading anything that you've watched first?

    The problem with this approach is that you're putting your interpretation of a book into the hands of a third party, rather than just in the hands of the author and your own imagination, which is how books were always intended to be read.

    I'm certainly glad that I read the Martin books long before watching any series or movie based upon them. I would hate for my vision of the books' setting and characters to be based on this HBO version, which I consider inferior for a variety of reasons (even though some characters they've done well). And I just don't see how that could be avoided, approaching it as you do. You can't unsee something once you've seen it.
    12-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, R. Johansen, Guentzel (LW), Perrault (LW)
    LW: Forsberg, Ehlers (RW), A. Lee, Tatar (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, Drouin (LW), Pastrnak, Nyquist (LW)
    D: Subban, Yandle, Werenski
    G: M.Jones, Bobrovsky, Hellebuyck, Hutton

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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    Ah, but have you enjoyed reading anything that you've watched first?

    The problem with this approach is that you're putting your interpretation of a book into the hands of a third party, rather than just in the hands of the author and your own imagination, which is how books were always intended to be read.

    I'm certainly glad that I read the Martin books long before watching any series or movie based upon them. I would hate for my vision of the books' setting and characters to be based on this HBO version, which I consider inferior for a variety of reasons (even though some characters they've done well). And I just don't see how that could be avoided, approaching it as you do. You can't unsee something once you've seen it.
    Yes, plenty. I can do it one way not the other. It can be argued that I'm "missing something" doing it my way and not being able to create my own universe from the text having seen another interpretation of it but I do just fine. And this way I enjoy two somethings. Go the other way and I spoil both, without fail.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    Yes, plenty. I can do it one way not the other. It can be argued that I'm "missing something" doing it my way and not being able to create my own universe from the text having seen another interpretation of it but I do just fine. And this way I enjoy two somethings. Go the other way and I spoil both, without fail.
    To each his own, I'd guess. Athough I'd say that enjoying the greater benefit of the one might be more enriching and vital than necessarily enjoying both. But you'll have to arrive at that judgement on your own.

    Reduced enjoyment of the film treatment because you recognize its inferiority to your enjoyment of the source material is not a tragedy, believe me. It's why books have managed to endure in the video age.
    12-team H2H w/ daily changes.
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,W,GAA,Sv%.
    Keep 6 (5 F/D, 1 D/G) Start 2C, 2LW, 2RW, 3D, 2Util, 2G


    C: Getzlaf, R. Johansen, Guentzel (LW), Perrault (LW)
    LW: Forsberg, Ehlers (RW), A. Lee, Tatar (RW)
    RW: Tarasenko, Drouin (LW), Pastrnak, Nyquist (LW)
    D: Subban, Yandle, Werenski
    G: M.Jones, Bobrovsky, Hellebuyck, Hutton

    IR:




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