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Thread: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    I was reading his books back then, way before the HBO hype train, and if I recall correctly, he had written a large portion of the first three books long before he eventually published them, so he had a big head start and that is largely why the books were released almost exactly two years apart.

    I've been regularly reading Martin's blog for ~10 years and I have at times corresponded with him via email (though the last few years he has been too busy to reply to emails like he used to), and in all honesty I just get the sense that the scope of these books has gotten away from him a bit. At the beginning he had a clearer vision for the books and as he got well into the series, the story became more complex. Partially why these latest books are taking so long is because he has to ensure he isn't making any mistakes with so many concurrent storylines. Also, I have a feeling he has hit a bit of a mental block. People whine and complain about his "side projects" (novellas, his cinema, his football obsession, his book tours and interviews), but for anyone who has ever tried writing knows, the best way to break a mental block is to move away from the story and give your mind something fresh and different to focus on. I know I sound like a biased writer defending another, but the truth is that there is no way to write fast if the ideas just aren't coming to you. Martin could do us all a disservice and string together some words and ultimately publish an inferior novel, but he knows fans have huge expectations and he is too committed to this series to publish anything short of perfection.
    If this had just been going on for a couple of years I could agree with you, but this bullshlt is now well into its second decade.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    i havent read any of the books but ive watched the tv series, cant say i understand whats going on all the time but:


    ***********************************SPOILER******** ***************************


    i hear sansa stark is having a sex scene coming up so i cant wait for the next season.

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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Looks like the show could be going in a different direction than the books.

    “People are going to die who don’t die in the books, so even the book readers will be unhappy," he said. "Everybody better be on their toes. David and D.B. are even bloodier than I am.”

    http://ca.ign.com/articles/2015/02/1...tv-show-deaths

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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Brutal.
    I hate to say it... but I do think the show will crash & burn if it starts to deviate from the books.

    In all likelihood, the show will be able to hang onto the "kid cast" because they are likely cheap.
    But the older cast is likely ready to cash out on high and take their fame to other acting opportunities.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see the following "older" cast members say "I'm done"... and thus be "killed off" to end discussion of their return:
    *Tyrion (Dinklage)
    *Jaime Lannister (Coster-Waldau)

    Tyrion especially... I think he's as good as done.
    For those that read the books, well... I don't want to spoil it... but his "story arc" is distant from the other characters... unless HBO intends on playing into the whole boring fAegon story that most dedicated readers think is a terrible off-shoot by GRRM to throw many of us his default Dragon-Rider-Trio (discusion fodder for the bookies).

    The 4th & 5th books were not up to same entertainment level of the first three anyways... so HBO will have a HUGE CHALLENGE on their hands to keep interest in the show.

    My prediction: THIS will be the season where the show will see a steady drop-off.
    Then they'll announce that their final contract season WILL BE the final season and they'll find some hoo-rah (alternate) way to end it.

    I DO believe that GRRM has multiple endings for this grand story and will allow HBO to pursue his 2nd best option for an ending.
    (I think even GRRM knows that his legacy is tarnished if the real ending comes on TV before the books. That assumption gives me comfort - as a dedicated book-enthusiast of the story.)


    Ultimately, I think Game of Thrones the TV show will be remember similar to the series "LOST".
    4-5 seasons of straight awesomeness,
    followed by a "meh" 2nd last season
    with a distasterously awful final season and terrible finish.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Brutal.
    I hate to say it... but I do think the show will crash & burn if it starts to deviate from the books.

    In all likelihood, the show will be able to hang onto the "kid cast" because they are likely cheap.
    But the older cast is likely ready to cash out on high and take their fame to other acting opportunities.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see the following "older" cast members say "I'm done"... and thus be "killed off" to end discussion of their return:
    *Tyrion (Dinklage)
    *Jaime Lannister (Coster-Waldau)

    Tyrion especially... I think he's as good as done.
    For those that read the books, well... I don't want to spoil it... but his "story arc" is distant from the other characters... unless HBO intends on playing into the whole boring fAegon story that most dedicated readers think is a terrible off-shoot by GRRM to throw many of us his default Dragon-Rider-Trio (discusion fodder for the bookies).

    The 4th & 5th books were not up to same entertainment level of the first three anyways... so HBO will have a HUGE CHALLENGE on their hands to keep interest in the show.

    My prediction: THIS will be the season where the show will see a steady drop-off.
    Then they'll announce that their final contract season WILL BE the final season and they'll find some hoo-rah (alternate) way to end it.

    I DO believe that GRRM has multiple endings for this grand story and will allow HBO to pursue his 2nd best option for an ending.
    (I think even GRRM knows that his legacy is tarnished if the real ending comes on TV before the books. That assumption gives me comfort - as a dedicated book-enthusiast of the story.)


    Ultimately, I think Game of Thrones the TV show will be remember similar to the series "LOST".
    4-5 seasons of straight awesomeness,
    followed by a "meh" 2nd last season
    with a distasterously awful final season and terrible finish.
    Too cynical. I'm way more optimistic. I've never read the books so I've no idea how much deviating they've done already but I know they've done some. What I do know is that these are experienced TV people who know how to tell a story. Last season was the best season of the show not just because it had the juiciest source material but because the people doing the show know what they have. Most all the book readers I've talked to are MORE excited about this season because of how the show runners will have to deviate from the source material.

    I've heard the show runners only want to do like seven seasons of the show so they seemingly have a defined end date. All the big names have already extended their contracts through seven seasons. Maybe that's a coincidence and maybe it's not. I also think that it's no guarantee that all these actors try to cash out. Remember, most of them are English actors who have a much different value system than our own. No question, the big names demanded hefty raises to sign on for the seventh season but they do still enjoy being working actors. And the 10 episode HBO season isn't so stringent that they can't pursue other projects. It's one of the reasons why True Detective was able to get two big stars.

    Point being, I think the show will be fine.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Well, I knew that this is what we were utimately in store for from the outset (of the HBO series).

    I had a vague hope that the looming advance of the series might serve to light a match under Martin's @$$, but that clearly hasn't happened. It's rather had the more likely and opposite effect of adding more distractions to his already significant list of distractions.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    Too cynical. I'm way more optimistic. I've never read the books so I've no idea how much deviating they've done already but I know they've done some. What I do know is that these are experienced TV people who know how to tell a story.
    Oooo... I don't know if I agree.
    For a non-book reader, the key part to know is this: The first 4 seasons of the show cover the first 3 books.
    And the first 3 books are AMAZING.
    The story is incredible... and from what I've seen (thru 3 seasons) and heard (of the 4th season), the show follows VERY closely.
    The show doesn't cover the deep stuff and the outer stories (not enough time), but it does follow the main story.

    In other words, the writers have proven NOTHING so far as their capacity to carry this story on their own.
    Through 4 seasons of TV GoT... the story is ALL GRRM's... there's been almost no deviation (very minimal).
    In other words, there is not enough "new story" to gauge whether Benioff/Weiss can/have done/will do a good job.
    (small to zero "New Story" sample size: to use fantasy hockey numbers talk).

    It's like an emerging back-up goalie into a new-found starter's role... we THINK we know how he'll do... but he may fall flat on his face.

    As for the writers: As far as I know, Benioff & Weiss have only written two episodes of ten in each season.
    And those already had a story.

    Season 5 for HBO will be a completely different beast... because even the BOOKS were not that good...
    (Book 4 spend a lot of time with the Greyjoys on the Islands, way too much time with the Martells in Dorne, Sam... well, I don't want to give much away... but the Books in 4/5 do not MOVE - geographically. Everybody is sitting in one location. Remember when Walking Dead spent a whole damn season in the Prison - I stopped watching. This is going to be a bit like that. Busted apart characters in distant locations. At least in Walking Dead, the characters went between the two locations. In upcoming GoT stories - they are separated geographically and do ZERO interaction between locations - perhaps Brienne/Pod in Book 4... she's about the only traveler.)

    and those stories are so geographically different with so many new characters that a writer will have to be incredible to keep an audience interested.


    I can say this: As a book-reader, I have different expectations.
    It's very possible that the non-book-readers will NOT be affected by a story arc that is weak... this I don't know.

    Be interesting to find a poll on GoT (TV) viewers to see what % have read the book.
    Probably only 10%... so you may be right (and I may be only opinionating something that relates to less than a 10% viewership share).

    ???
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Be interesting to find a poll on GoT (TV) viewers to see what % have read the book.
    Probably only 10%... so you may be right (and I may be only opinionating something that relates to less than a 10% viewership share).

    ???
    I'm telling you that most of the book readers I've talked to are more excited about this season because of how it might deviate and because of the problems with the books that you mentioned. So it's not a demographic thing.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    This sort of puts Martin (and his publishers) in somwhat of a jam.

    When HBO completes the series, I expect it's bound to have many or most of the story elements that Martin plans to continue the books with, even if it's in an altered form. So in that sense the HBO series could be interpreted as a massive spoiler for the book series, which could then conceivably cause a significant portion of the readership to lose interest.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Instant Karma View Post
    This sort of puts Martin (and his publishers) in somwhat of a jam.

    When HBO completes the series, I expect it's bound to have many or most of the story elements that Martin plans to continue the books with, even if it's in an altered form. So in that sense the HBO series could be interpreted as a massive spoiler for the book series, which could then conceivably cause a significant portion of the readership to lose interest.

    At his core, GRRM is a book writer... and that should be his legacy.
    I really don't see him as a guy that would sell his story ending for $$$ (i.e. Grant HBO use of his story-ending).

    I do think he has conveyed (honestly) how he intends to end it... as I think HBO would need direction in not killing off KEY characters.

    I'm sure contractually two things are covered between HBO/GRRM:
    1) GRRM has truthfully conveyed to HBO how he intends to end it. And this honestly is provided simply so that HBO may work towards a similar finish with key characters alive.
    2) That HBO (contractually) can not allude to the ending or use his official ending unless approved by GRRM. (and I honestly don't think GRRM will let them use his main ending... he'll grant them use of an alternate... and I think the world will be OK with that.)

    Writers... they... they are a prideful bunch and VERY committed to their loyal following of readers.
    I just don't see him selling out the ending for HBO's use.
    At the end of most lives, I think people want to be remember as being somebody special & faithful... not a sell-out.
    For that reason, I really truly believe that IF the show ends first (which it seems to be the case)... the ending will not be GRRM's original, planned book ending.

    (and I think there is MANY an ending for this story. I think that HBO will probably be granted the shiny-happy ending: i.e. Jon Snow on the throne.
    As for the book-ending, I think it'll have the modern-day realist ending, with the key protaganists potentially biting it in sacrifice and some other more flawed character (you know who) atop the throne. i.e. NOT shiny/happy).

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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    At his core, GRRM is a book writer... and that should be his legacy.
    I really don't see him as a guy that would sell his story ending for $$$ (i.e. Grant HBO use of his story-ending).

    I do think he has conveyed (honestly) how he intends to end it... as I think HBO would need direction in not killing off KEY characters.

    I'm sure contractually two things are covered between HBO/GRRM:
    1) GRRM has truthfully conveyed to HBO how he intends to end it. And this honestly is provided simply so that HBO may work towards a similar finish with key characters alive.
    2) That HBO (contractually) can not allude to the ending or use his official ending unless approved by GRRM. (and I honestly don't think GRRM will let them use his main ending... he'll grant them use of an alternate... and I think the world will be OK with that.)

    Writers... they... they are a prideful bunch and VERY committed to their loyal following of readers.
    I just don't see him selling out the ending for HBO's use.
    At the end of most lives, I think people want to be remember as being somebody special & faithful... not a sell-out.
    For that reason, I really truly believe that IF the show ends first (which it seems to be the case)... the ending will not be GRRM's original, planned book ending.

    (and I think there is MANY an ending for this story. I think that HBO will probably be granted the shiny-happy ending: i.e. Jon Snow on the throne.
    As for the book-ending, I think it'll have the modern-day realist ending, with the key protaganists potentially biting it in sacrifice and some other more flawed character (you know who) atop the throne. i.e. NOT shiny/happy).

    I could chat asoiaf for-EVAH!
    My belief is that he is changing his ending based on the knowledge that the show is going to finish long before he ever does.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    My belief is that he is changing his ending based on the knowledge that the show is going to finish long before he ever does.
    The ending is set.
    It is known.
    http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...ed-the-ending/

    Direct link below:
    http://winteriscoming.net/2014/08/17...g-predictions/

    The only question is WHICH media gets his original ending.
    And his loyalty is to his readers... which means the TV show has to go with an alternate (if it ends first - which it will).
    My 2 cents.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    A lot of speculating going on in this thread, but all I have to say is I'm disappointed that show producers seem to be deviating from the books. Why they're doing that - hard to say at this point.

    I hope what GRRM is hinting at is that they're just going to kill some peripheral characters so they can focus more on the core storylines... I REALLY hope they're not planning to do any significant alterations to the main storyline (ie: setting up an alternate ending to wrap the show up sooner). As a devoted fan of the books that would piss me off personally and tarnish the entire show.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    The ending is set.
    It is known.
    http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...ed-the-ending/

    Direct link below:
    http://winteriscoming.net/2014/08/17...g-predictions/

    The only question is WHICH media gets his original ending.
    And his loyalty is to his readers... which means the TV show has to go with an alternate (if it ends first - which it will).
    My 2 cents.
    That's if you believe the man, which I don't.
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    Default Re: Game of Thrones fans will have to wait...

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    That's if you believe the man, which I don't.
    Don't see why he would lie about that...

    Anyway it's just common sense - there are so many theories out there that a small handful among thousands are bound to be right.
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