What is the difference between Left Wing Lock and Frozen Pool?

[grudgemaster]

A guy in my league told me that Frozen Pool stole their ideas from Left Wing Lock and now they charge for it (which seems really douchey to me).
He also said that Frozen Pool is often not accurate with their numbers, is that true? I tried Frozen Pool years ago but had some trouble with the interface, but maybe it has been fixed?

Who has used both extensively and can give an impartial comparison?

[slufoot]

I use Left wing lock exclusively to find out recent line combinations. Easier to access and less glitches.
Frozen Pool though is good if you're looking at line production.

[austeane]

As far as I know, it is the opposite... Frozen Pool had everything going first, and no they don't charge for anything. Frozen Pool also has way more information.

The only thing I like a better about LWL is their color scheme, but there is a lot more info here than here. Also, a lot more options here.

[grudgemaster]

As far as I know, it is the opposite... Frozen Pool had everything going first, and no they don't charge for anything. Frozen Pool also has way more information.

The only thing I like a better about LWL is their color scheme, but there is a lot more info here than here. Also, a lot more options here.

Oh has it always been a dobberhockey product? I thought it was it's own website but I have not looked at it in quite awhile. Their numbers don't jive at all either, compare the two of them on any given player. I chose Patrick Kane for the full season/even strength and I get this discrepency which us huge:

LWL - Kane - Richards - Versteeg (8.4%)
FP - Kane - Richards - Versteeg (20.98%)

It would be nice to know which was accurate and which was not

[Dobber]

A guy in my league told me that Frozen Pool stole their ideas from Left Wing Lock and now they charge for it (which seems really douchey to me).
He also said that Frozen Pool is often not accurate with their numbers, is that true? I tried Frozen Pool years ago but had some trouble with the interface, but maybe it has been fixed?

Who has used both extensively and can give an impartial comparison?

Frozen Pool started about eight years ago. Then charged for it after having it free for three years.

Then Left Wing Lock took the idea and put it out for free, which killed Frozen Pool sales. Left Wing Lock also took Goalie Post's idea of the Goalie grid and made it free as well.


Frozen Pool is now free, but has to recover the traffic lost. Goalie Post is now free as well. This is a great example of capitalism working - LWL made these tools free and forced both FP and GP to become free.

That said, Frozen Pool is the original and better option. Click the Player Research tab at the top of this page and take a look at the player pages. Everything you need for fantasy hockey.


I have to admit, I'm startled by the statement that Left Wing Lock had it first. It did not. Not by a long shot. Hopefully people don't think FP stole this idea.

[Dobber]

Oh has it always been a dobberhockey product? I thought it was it's own website but I have not looked at it in quite awhile. Their numbers don't jive at all either, compare the two of them on any given player. I chose Patrick Kane for the full season/even strength and I get this discrepency which us huge:

LWL - Kane - Richards - Versteeg (8.4%)
FP - Kane - Richards - Versteeg (20.98%)

It would be nice to know which was accurate and which was not

This is probably a case of "ES vs. PP vs. SH". Check the settings to be sure. It also could be different time windows

[grudgemaster]

I have to admit, I'm startled by the statement that Left Wing Lock had it first. It did not. Not by a long shot. Hopefully people don't think FP stole this idea.

It says they started 9 years ago so it would seem that they did have it first. It could be they weren't popular when they started and didn't show up on Google searches and stuff? I'm pretty sure I heard of FP before I heard of LWL.

This is probably a case of "ES vs. PP vs. SH". Check the settings to be sure. It also could be different time windows

Nope they were both set to ES for the same time period (full season). Go ahead and try it for yourself, pick a player from this season and compare the results from each one.

Also, why does FP have guys like Afinogenov and Brad May in the list? Those guys haven't played in 5 years, maybe that's why the numbers are off?

[LakeSoup]

A guy in my league told me that Frozen Pool stole their ideas from Left Wing Lock and now they charge for it (which seems really douchey to me).
He also said that Frozen Pool is often not accurate with their numbers, is that true? I tried Frozen Pool years ago but had some trouble with the interface, but maybe it has been fixed?

Who has used both extensively and can give an impartial comparison?

LWL is mainly used for goalie starts and frequency of teammates. I use it almost exclusively for what their game day lineups are because they get info from morning skates, etc, to make conclusions. I like that.

They also have articles every week ...or every 2 weeks on goalies/skaters that are playing at least 1 SD away from their average performance, those are interesting reads but shouldn't be taken at face value.

[newfcollins]

Also, why does FP have guys like Afinogenov and Brad May in the list? Those guys haven't played in 5 years, maybe that's why the numbers are off?

You can look up stats on Frozen Pool as far back as 2007-08 season. So if you wanted, you could look up May and Afinogenov back then, so they would need to still be in the system.

[newfcollins]

Oh has it always been a dobberhockey product? I thought it was it's own website but I have not looked at it in quite awhile. Their numbers don't jive at all either, compare the two of them on any given player. I chose Patrick Kane for the full season/even strength and I get this discrepency which us huge:

LWL - Kane - Richards - Versteeg (8.4%)
FP - Kane - Richards - Versteeg (20.98%)

It would be nice to know which was accurate and which was not

I think I know. When you look at Frozen Pool, you're looking up Patrick Kane specifically. So the numbers are based on just when Kane is on the ice. So pretty much, 20.98 per cent of the time when Kane is on the ice, it's even strength with Richards and Versteeg. (Link)

In LWL, you're looking it up by team, and then by specifics (ie, just even strength). So out of all the possible even strength line combos for the Hawks, Kane-Richards-Versteeg is on 8.4 per cent of the time. (Link)

There's a big difference between the two. One is based just on Kane, the other is all Blackhawks.

If you use Frozen Pool, you can look up just even strength for the Hawks (look it up here). You'll see Frozen Pool's even strength numbers to be pretty close to LWL.

[grudgemaster]

You can look up stats on Frozen Pool as far back as 2007-08 season. So if you wanted, you could look up May and Afinogenov back then, so they would need to still be in the system.

Oh OK that makes sense. But why do they show up when I have the year set to be 2014-2015 Regular?
That's the part I am not understanding and wondering if that is why the numbers don't seem right? Maybe it is factoring in old seasons or players somehow?

[newfcollins]

Oh OK that makes sense. But why do they show up when I have the year set to be 2014-2015 Regular?

I think it's because the pull down menus doesn't change. You can set it up for 2010-11, and choose Nathan MacKinnon for example. You don't get anything on the page when it comes up however.

[Dobber]

It says they started 9 years ago so it would seem that they did have it first. It could be they weren't popular when they started and didn't show up on Google searches and stuff? I'm pretty sure I heard of FP before I heard of LWL.

The LWL site started nine years ago, but LWL didn't add line combos until I charged for them. Trust me, I know. Jason (the FP creator) was furious when they did that. Whey they added line combos, we had already had them for three years.

Nope they were both set to ES for the same time period (full season). Go ahead and try it for yourself, pick a player from this season and compare the results from each one.

Also, why does FP have guys like Afinogenov and Brad May in the list? Those guys haven't played in 5 years, maybe that's why the numbers are off?

It would be for the area you're looking at then. Either % of team line combos if you're looking at team, or % of Kane's line combos this season if you're looking at Kane, etc.

All the players are in there for the other years, yes. But it's easy to navigate. Click the box and "Kan" and it instantly goes to Kane. Each player profile also has a link to team stats - in there you will find cap hit, etc, as well as quick links to other players.