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Thread: Raptors are for real.

  1. #1
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    Default Raptors are for real.

    I'm curious about a few things.
    1 What is Raptors greatest need to get by the Cavs Wizards and Bulls(& Hawks?)
    Personally I think a good tough rebounding PF Vet. I love Amir but he's a good #2 for now. Of course we have to fit in PP too.
    2. What about next year 36m off the books. What do u see happening? Resign Williams? Thoughts?
    3 what do Real fans (& not Raptors fans) honestly think of the Raptors?
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    Default Re: Raptors are for real.

    Really solid TEAM. They've got excellent depth, understand their system and play well together. Well put together group too. The roster makes sense and is flexible depending on what the opponent throws out there.

    Not sure #1 need is a replacement for Amir. He and Pat-Pat are a very solid 1-2 at the power forward spot.

    Biggest need is almost certainly at the center spot. I love JV and he can start but these guys need another rim protector who can play up to 30 minutes. I'd be looking at a guy like Brandan Wright who the Celtics just acquired but could likely be had for a pick and an expiring.

    Some folks in the media have argued the need for another wing, in particular one who can play the "small ball four" position. I'd argue against that. The Raps have DeRozan, Ross and Lou, often play with two point guards with both Greivis and Lowry on the floor and also have James Johnson as an imperfect "small ball four" and/or "defensive three."

    If you could seriously upgrade any of those guys without ruining your cap situation then sure you do it. But that wing situation is looking fine to me.

    It's the Hansbrough, Stiemsma, Noguiera spot that would need upgrading as none of those guys should ever see minutes come playoff time and the Raps will probably need a fourth big from somewhere, especially to beat Chicago.

    But really, this is going to come down to injuries, matchups and luck. The Raps have put in the work to get in the contender conversation but they do need to tighten up the defense before I really take them seriously, which is why they need another rim protector.

    Quick way to tell if a contender is for real is to look at their per 100 possessions metrics. A team Top-10 in defense and offense is a true contender. Raps are #2 for offense but 17th for defense. They were a top-10 defense last year so we know they can get there but they have to actually do it before I buy in.

    For more on those per100 metrics: http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/order/true

    Right now it's Golden State, Portland, Chicago and Memphis ranking top10 in both.
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    Metal thats a phenomenal writeup. I guess when I talked about Amir I was leaning toward the same idea as you when it came to another rim protector.
    Wizards also scare me with Gortat and Nene.

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    Default Re: Raptors are for real.

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan321 View Post
    Metal thats a phenomenal writeup. I guess when I talked about Amir I was leaning toward the same idea as you when it came to another rim protector.
    Wizards also scare me with Gortat and Nene.
    I'm not too worried about them because of how injury-prone Nene is but they certainly could be a problem.

    The East is going through Chicago though. If you can't beat the Bulls you aren't making the Finals without some great fortune. And right now the Raps can't beat the Bulls.
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    Agreed. Let the Terrance Ross + for Kennith Faried trade rumours heatup again.

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    The biggest bonus for the raptors is that they are a great mixture of youth and vets. Everyone seems to have forgotten about Derozan in the last like 7 games (?) he’s been out. Derozan is No1 or No2 best player on this team, and with Toronto’s depth and heart, this team hasn’t missed a beat. When DD went down I was hoping for a minimum 500 ball until he got back and anything better would be gravy.

    JV does need to get better at rebounding, but he won’t be replaced. The difference between him 2 yrs ago and this yr is massive; so big that I wouldn’t want someone to come in and take his minutes. I would upgrade Chuck Hayes tho. JV gets into foul trouble early sometimes and a center that’s solely there for rebounding could be good. But Chuck has the ability to stand his ground against BIG centers even tho he’s not tall (he’s just…well set).

    Honestly, I don’t think this team needs improvements on the top 8. Derozan, Lowry, Amir, JV, and Ross are a very good starting 5. Greivis, Patterson, and Lou are a good next 3. Greivis and Lou can play a couple of positions which does help come foul/rest time. James Johnson brings some grit and hardnose defense to the team, and the additional surprise of his ridiculous slams. He goes up against anyone. It’s the Hansbourgh, Fields, and Stiemsma (maybe Lou even, he’s frustrated me this yr) are who you need to upgrade. Stiemsma goes out in the blowout games and that seems to be it, he’s unneeded really. Nogueira went out before him a few times.

    But this team is a 1 series winning team, maybe 2 if they get lucky. But Chicago, and even the Cavs (just have the Raps number) are the 2 teams that’ll be the team to beat. If Toronto gets lucky, the standings will finish like they are now. Toronto vs Brooklyn, and Cavs vs Bulls. Toronto wouldn’t see the Cavs or Bulls till the semi-finals, and Toronto gets a big redemption series.
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    So any thoughts on what that 36m will bring us?

    http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nba/2015/

    As much as Amir loves Toronto, his health and possible price tag (just can't see them paying him the same 7m again)

    would love me to get some Milsap or DeAndre but that's just dreaming. Maybe a Koufas would be more realistic.
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    Default Re: Raptors are for real.

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyfan321 View Post
    So any thoughts on what that 36m will bring us?

    http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nba/2015/

    As much as Amir loves Toronto, his health and possible price tag (just can't see them paying him the same 7m again)

    would love me to get some Milsap or DeAndre but that's just dreaming. Maybe a Koufas would be more realistic.
    Landry Fields is making like 6.5mill and his contract is up, Amir could get the 7mill pretty easily. Hayes, Williams, Camby (STILL GETTING PAID), Hansbourgh, and Stiemsma are all off contract this yr. Hayes may not return, but Lou and Hansbourgh prolly will.

    I’d go after Tristian Thompson, Mbah a Moute, Koufus, and maybe sniff at Leonard. Give any of those guys a Fields contract (or more) and move Amir to the 6th/7th man position. Perkins, Gasol, and Chandler would be too pricey for the type of Center the raps need, so maybe a cheap resign of Hayes will do.
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    How I'd love TT to return but being an RFA, unless they grossly overpaid he, will be matched.
    Yeah 7m is not a big sum anymore. So resigning a chemistry builder like Amir will probably be the end result. Abiet a short term deal.
    Weird I thought Raps were done paying Camby after this season. As per buyout:
    2013: 2.7m
    2014: 670k

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    Given the Raptors mantra I doubt they’d ever sign a big name player again. Jermaine O’Neal, Camby,Turkoglu, Alston, Kleiza, Kapono, Fields, and Olajuwon were all players signed in the past that failed. Seems like Toronto is going to play it safe and not go big anymore, especially with Ujiri running the team, he’s too smart for contracts that aren’t needed.
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    LW: Skinner, Arvidsson (RW), Zetterberg (C)
    RW: Tarasenko, Marner (C),Niederreiter (LW)
    D: Karlsson (D), Klingberg, Rielly, Carlson, Hamilton
    G: Andersen, Quick, Darling
    IR: Kesler (C), Ristolainen (D)
    IR+: FREE
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    Default Re: Raptors are for real.

    reminds me of the detroit team a while back with billups, wallace, prince etc. the team has such great chemistry, always fun to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    Given the Raptors mantra I doubt they’d ever sign a big name player again. Jermaine O’Neal, Camby,Turkoglu, Alston, Kleiza, Kapono, Fields, and Olajuwon were all players signed in the past that failed. Seems like Toronto is going to play it safe and not go big anymore, especially with Ujiri running the team, he’s too smart for contracts that aren’t needed.
    Don't rule out a big signing or two. Ujiri is famous for having re-signed Nene to a deal he felt was overpriced knowing he would be able to unload him later if he needed because Nene was still an asset that teams wanted.

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    Ujiri wouldn’t sign a big name unless it really fit though. In the Nene trade, it’s not like Ujiri won it either, McGee and Turiaf for Nene. The raptors have their 3 main pieces (Derozan, JV, and Lowry), everyone else is complimentary. I think if Toronto signed a “Big” name, it’ll be too many cooks in the kitchen with an overpaid player underachieving. It’ll be upgrading depth that keeps this teaming moving forward, because depth is the biggest advantage the raptors have.
    12 team, H2H, Keep 6 (max 1 goalie)
    G, A, Pts, PIM, +/-, PPP, FW
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    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA
    C: Backstrom, Stamkos, RNH
    LW: Skinner, Arvidsson (RW), Zetterberg (C)
    RW: Tarasenko, Marner (C),Niederreiter (LW)
    D: Karlsson (D), Klingberg, Rielly, Carlson, Hamilton
    G: Andersen, Quick, Darling
    IR: Kesler (C), Ristolainen (D)
    IR+: FREE
    NA: Sprong (RW)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    Ujiri wouldn’t sign a big name unless it really fit though. In the Nene trade, it’s not like Ujiri won it either, McGee and Turiaf for Nene. The raptors have their 3 main pieces (Derozan, JV, and Lowry), everyone else is complimentary. I think if Toronto signed a “Big” name, it’ll be too many cooks in the kitchen with an overpaid player underachieving. It’ll be upgrading depth that keeps this teaming moving forward, because depth is the biggest advantage the raptors have.
    My point was, he's not afraid to hand out big contracts even if there's little logic in doing so. While he didn't get much in return, the point is he got out from under the deal.

    I just disagree with the notion that Ujiri is "above" making a bad signing or an overpayment. After the likely playoff flameout there's going to be more pressure to add and compete now, which means exploring options with the cap space that virtually every team will have. Ujiri is a smart dude. He's good at his job. He's just not immune to making mistakes.

    Remember, the Raptors being a contender now was something of a happy mistake. Last year they were floundering before the Rudy Gay deal with Dwayne Casey's future in doubt, Kyle Lowry trade rumours, and lots of hubub about tanking for the hometown kid, Wiggins.

    I was among the crowd that thought dealing Gay would actually be addition by subtraction and really liked the Greivis addition. I'll give Ujiri some benefit of the doubt. If I could see the benefit, I'm sure a smarter basketball guy could also envision a scenario where the Raptors would improve without Gay. But the move was more about creating options than about definitely getting better immediately.

    So I can totally envision a scenario where the Raptors go fishing at the high end of the market to bring in a big name if only because Ujiri knows he can make moves. If it isn't a fit he can make a deal.

    Let's not forget the impact ownership can have here. Last time the Raptors made a leap they spent big on Jason Kapono. Before that it was Hakeem Olajuwan. Once you get a real taste of success it becomes difficult not to push for more.

    And maybe a big signing could work out. Maybe they go and get someone overqualified for the Lou role off the bench or find a real upgrade in the front court but not necessarily someone who needs the ball in their hands.

    I'm not saying they definitely will or won't do anything but that's my point. You can't say anything definitively. Again, never underestimate the ability of GMs to make awful signings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by praba View Post
    reminds me of the detroit team a while back with billups, wallace, prince etc. the team has such great chemistry, always fun to watch.
    ugh how much better this team would be with a Wallace in the mix.

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