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Thread: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

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    Exclamation [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    What do you see?
    What are you supposed to see?
    What's really happening here?


    The Florida Panthers.
    Most people know that I've been arguing that the Panthers are a bad, bad, bad team.
    And - that's in the best interest of the Panthers to tank their team for... one. more. season.
    I have naysayers that say that Florida will spend money to improve and should spend money to improve.
    If improving immediately was their goal, they could've easily dealt the #1 pick (Ekblad) to some team for some solid proven players and even a slight downgrade in draft pick, it was a deep draft.
    But I called it... that pick wasn't going anywhere because a young defenseman adds very little to their actual team's 2014-2015 quality, while adding a TON to it's long-term quality.

    Quite simply, there is a two-step formula for turning an abysmal team into a success:
    1. Multiple years of crapitude = stockpile of good top draft picks.
    2. Cap spending team with sufficient funds to supplement the team's payroll.
    (*see 90s Nordiques/Avs, 90s Senators, 00s Penguins, 00s Blackhawks)

    IF the Panthers get a top two draft pick next year, they'll get either Connor McDavid or Jack Eichel.
    BOOM.
    Add that to Barkov, Huberdeau, Bjugstad, and Ekblad and you'll see a perennial playoff team for 5-7 years, starting around 2017.
    That's step #1.

    Step #2 is going to be a lot more difficult.
    They need cap funding.
    To have cap funding a team needs either:
    i) An owner with deep, deep pockets and willing to take a massive loss in a non-hockey market. This is... nobody.
    ii) A club with a passionate enough fan base to fill seat.


    Credit to Axeman33's link about co-owner Doug Cifu's statements of the Panthers.

    Unsustainable.
    That was the word this guy used to describe the club.
    The city... Sunrise... the size of the fanbase... not enough to support the club... unsustainable.

    Here is what a good owner who wants to keep the team at same location would say:
    "We've invested a lot in the club this summer. We believe we'll see the results on the ice. We have faith our fans will like the direction of the team and come watch."

    Instead...
    Unsustainable.

    To toot my own horn... I have a solid track record of interpreting player comments in their final years of contract with teams.
    I knew Kovalchuk wasn't re-signing with Atlanta.
    I knew Parise wasn't re-signing with New Jersey.
    I knew Vanek wasn't re-signing with Buffalo... or NYI... or Montreal.
    And I knew Brodeur wasn't re-signing with New Jersey.
    These guys laid the ground-work with their comments, you could feel it.
    There's a certain way you say that you might (honestly) be back... and there's a certain way you politely say it... another way.


    Meat & Potatoes time, what has the new Florida Panther ownership done:
    1. Viola/Cifu came in and immediately said "We are going to spend money on this team". Good guys = Florida ownership. They are trying.
    2. Viola/Cifu did, in fact, spend a ton of money on this team. Good guys = Florida ownership. They are trying.
    3. Recently they even cut ties with their Ice Dancers, to be... more... "family oriented". Good guys = Florida ownership. They are trying.

    But...
    1. These are just words.
    2. These are poorly allocated funds. No team overspent like Florida. They have a $63.5m cap for next season.
    3. I'm sorry... but the major bucks towards tickets are spend by male-dominated corporations. I've seen these yahoos at the games. They like flaunting their positions and entertaining clients with their $12 beers and comments about the 15-year old ice-dancers. {not kidding, I've sat behind these a-holes at games at Phillips Arena/Thrashers. This is a bigger amount of cash flow then "families"... hate to say it, but true. Especially!!! in non-hockey markets}


    And here we are...
    Unsustainable.
    The new $63.5m team hasn't even hit the ice and the Panther ownership is laying the ground work.
    In past years, this has been a $50m team... taking a loss.

    How big will that loss look if they are a $63.5m team with the same attendance?
    What fans out there are suddenly jumping to buy season tickets now that the Panthers have... Dave Bolland?


    I went on an internet search yesterday to read about Doug Cifu.
    I read one comment which was all I needed to read for my "tell"... about what will really happen with this club.
    Here it is:
    Vinnie and I have both publicly said that we are here to make this franchise work in Florida.
    ...publicly said...
    Oh... because... it needed to be... "on the record"?
    Reminds me of my wife's friends who need to publicly tell their spouse, via Facebook, how wonderful they are... how much they love them.
    Nope.
    Sorry.
    As soon as I read this line, I re-read.
    And then I realized... The Florida Panthers... in Florida... are done.
    This comment was the groundwork. The groundwork to go back and say "We told you that we'd try. We tried."
    The owner is going to make a statement, to remind people, that he committed to this team?... publicly. Publicly. He needed to remind us of that? Hmmm.
    Seriously, this is "telling"... at least for me, it's a "tell".


    What are they doing here?
    It's a set-up... for disaster.
    And in the end... the ownership that said they'd spend... and went family-friendly by cutting ice dancers... is taking a $10-$20m loss.

    Unsustainable.
    They said it in the summer of 2014.
    They'll prove it with numbers in the summer of 2015.

    They'll present their massive loss to the NHL owners group and look to re-locate or sell the team.
    Perhaps even the sneaky Viola (who, from all I've read is a New Jersey "basketball" type guy) has a suitor to sell them to that has always wanted the team... elsewhere.


    This is my conspiracy theory.
    Remember Quebec.
    It's happening again.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Pretty good read Pengwin7. Interesting.

    A team like Florida, with it's up and coming young roster, would be great elsewhere.

    Now let's wait and see if you predicted right once more!

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Havn't these same terms been thrown around with other teams in the past though. The Devils, the Sabres, the Coyotes etc. I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm just not sure we can read too much into the words that owners use.

    I do think the 'spend to the cap' to lose more money and get moved, is certainly an interesting idea. I would have thought they did it because they believe they can be a better team. They have some solid young players and have now surrounded them with solid vets as well.

    Going to be interesting this season to see what direction that team takes.

    EDIT: You need to post in the 'How Many points with Florida get?' thread Pengwin!

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    You're point about increasing the payroll from $50 to $65 million this year is very interesting. Cutting the ice dancers and the family oriented thing vs corporate guys is maybe a bit of a stretch, but the payroll to show massive losses next year makes a lot of sense. To be honest, I don't even think they need to set it up this way to move the team, they are already struggling as it is. Even if this all turns out to be their plan though... 5 years for Dave Bolland at that money? Was that really necessary?

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Interesting.. But also in turn: if the Panthers get McDavid or Eichel, they have another franchise guy to go along with Ekblad, to build a franchise around..

    Florida needs a solid young core to start winning and more people will come out to the games!!
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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
    Interesting.. But also in turn: if the Panthers get McDavid or Eichel, they have another franchise guy to go along with Ekblad, to build a franchise around..

    Florida needs a solid young core to start winning and more people will come out to the games!!
    Ya, but you don't need to waste money by spending to the cap to do that.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    I've heard rumblings now for 3 locations: Quebec, Seattle and Las Vegas. Even though Bettman won't say anything concrete I have a really hard time believing that he isn't having serious conversations with investors behind the scenes. The other thing that gives these rumors serious legs is that they're all building 20,000 seat arenas (well not Seattle yet, but they're talking about it).

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Sadly i don´t think like i stated multiple times the Panthers are not bad enough for McDavid/Eichel. They need luck to get them.

    As a Panthers fan not from the area i care about the team not the location, but i still you are at least wrong on the tanking part.
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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    And then I realized... The Florida Panthers... in Florida... are done.
    Doesn't "Atlanta Panthers" have a nice ring to it?

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Quote Originally Posted by mojavedesert View Post
    Doesn't "Atlanta Panthers" have a nice ring to it?
    Ugh, i hate Atlanta. One of the ugliest cities i´ve ever been to. Pls don´t do this to me.
    Commish of UNFFHL, dangered species being the sole Panthers fan on Dobber.

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    In the link you posted from Axe, it said the Panthers have a lease until 2028. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel the Panthers are just too expensive to move. You'd have the cost of the franchise + the cost of the relocation fees + the cost of buying out 13 (!!) years of their lease.
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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    In the link you posted from Axe, it said the Panthers have a lease until 2028. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel the Panthers are just too expensive to move. You'd have the cost of the franchise + the cost of the relocation fees + the cost of buying out 13 (!!) years of their lease.
    First off, I was wondering if someone was going to start a thread about this topic. Kudos Pengwin7.

    Next, to your point rataylor about their lease, I mentioned in my ramblings that Broward County is already in discussions and investigating the possibility about allowing the team to be released from their lease.

    There's more about this here:

    http://www.thescore.com/#/nhl/news/539519
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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Apologize. Honestly haven't had a chance to read the ramblings yet. Was just throwing out a speculative. I know leases can be cancelled to the mutual benefaction of both parties (I.E. Arizona Coyotes > Glendale), I just wasn't sure if the Panthers were costing the city money like the Coyotes are.
    12 Team H2H Keeper, Keep 5, Keepers,
    Roster: 4C, 3RW, 3LW, 5D, 2U, 3B, 3IR, 4G (Start 2)
    Stats: G(3), A(2), +/-, PIM(0.5), PPP(2), SHP(3), GWG(2), SOG (0.1), HITS(0.1), BLKS(0.2), W(3), OTL (1), GA(-1), SV(0.2), SO(3)

    C: Crosby, Seguin, Bonino
    LW: Benn, Hall, Parise, Huberdeau, Larkin (C/LW), Panarin (C/LW)
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    D: Byfuglien (D/RW), Josi, Doughty, Vatanen, Gostisbehere, Bogosian
    G: Schneider, Andersen, Hellebuyck, Vasylevskiy
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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    Quote Originally Posted by Kofax View Post
    5 years for Dave Bolland at that money? Was that really necessary?
    I think so. I think it was... deceptively... necessary.

    I think I get where you are going... they could have just overpaid players for ONE year to create the "massive loss" that will justify their intents to move the team.
    But if that were the case, the NHL and statistics pundits would say "Well, PlayerX and PlayerY are off the books this summer... the payroll is smaller and this will improve your yearly loss."

    Instead - they are totally hand-cuffed financially by the commitment of these long-term contracts.
    They can plead to Bettman and NHL owners that they have committed funds and are going to be in serious trouble if they aren't given provisions to turn a profit.
    HELP US! HELP US! they'll say.

    And then the NHL will.
    They'll allow them to sell or re-locate.

    The Panthers of my conspiracy theory have two goals:
    1. Be awful. This will possibly land them McDavid/Eichel.
    2. Be financially "in trouble". And financially, they need to look bad... really bad... to the point where they can really make a case that they NEED to move.

    Severely overpaying marginal players for long-term was a way to achieve both of those items.
    And... very easy to do!

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    Default Re: [Conspiracy Theory] Sunrise, Florida: Tanking for Re-Location

    The more I think of this, the less likely I see it. Intentionally losing tons of money with the hopes of maybe moving the team seems awfully risky.

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