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Thread: Trading for Benn

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    Default Trading for Benn

    I know there have been a few threads on this but wanted some advice from Dobbernation... (league scoring in signature).

    So i am coming off of a win in my pool last year. My youth finally paid off (and some luck with Varly) helped me win. I am of the mindset that I would like to get all of one line of high scoring teams if possible. I have Mack, Duch, Landy and Barrie in Col (which is awesome when all 3 get in on the same goal). I currently have Seguin and Nich in Dal and want to try and get Benn as i see this as a high scoring line.

    So.. as a start let's put aside the fact that the owner of Benn is kind of an absent owner at this time. I may hear from him as draft time closes in so thought i would get some input prior to that. I have inquired as to Benn's availability / would he even entertain a trade (no response - again.. lets put that aside for now).

    During the season, I offered J Neal for Benn straight up (offer timed out). I am looking to make one last pitch for him before i just chalk the owner up to being absent - (but pays money to the winner which i like) and moving on to other opportunities.

    So i was thinking now of

    1) Neal, Khudobin (he owns Ward / Mason / Harding in a start 2) plus i would entertain a draft pick prob 2nd or 3rd rounder.

    or

    2) Neal, Khudobin and Monahan (i would prefer to keep monahan, but have marchand to keep if i must - I do know he is not high on marchand)

    Is this to much / too little? (this is an expanison year for us as well to 12 teams - so with teams keeping 2/3 goalies not a lot of options there after expanison to get one in the draft)
    12 Team Keeper (keep 14)
    G,A,+/-,PIMS, GWG, W,SA, SO

    C - Seguin, Monahan, RNH
    RW - Mackinnon, Duchene, Hornqvist
    LW -Hoffman, Marleau, Panik,
    D - Fowler, Hedman, Ristolainen, Barrie, Klefbom, Goligoski
    Util - Coyle, Tatar, Little, Ladd,
    Goalie - Rask, Varly
    , Grubauer, Forsberg, Bobby Lou

    2013/2014 League Champion

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    Depends. Neal in Pittsburgh thats probably too much but fine. Neal in Nashville is hard to Judge. I doubt he would go for the first one, he might go for the second one. Keep in mind Nichu probably isn't playing with Seguin/Benn this year, Hemsky is slotted to play there. But the combo (from experience) is awesome.

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    As a Benn owner, neither offer would even vaguely entice me.

    But who knows, maybe this guy really loves Khudobin?
    18 Team Full Keeper. Total points.

    Start 10 F, 3 D, 1 UTIL, 1 G

    3 Points: SHO, 2 Points: G, PPA, SHG, SHA, W, 1 Point: A, PPG, GWG, .25 Points: BLK, .1 Points: FOW, SOG, SV, .15 Points: HIT, -.05 Points: FOL, -.15 Points: GA

    Forwards: Backstrom, Barre-Boulet, Beauvillier, Caufield, Dickinson, Donato, Donskoi, Gourde, Greenway, Horvat, Kase, Keller, Kuznetsov, MacKinnon, Marchessault, J. T. Miller, Sikura, Tarasenko, Zegras

    Defense: Barrie, Brannstrom, Cholowski, Honka, Matheson, Pulock, Shattenkirk

    Goal: Dubnyk, Jarry, Markstrom, Merzlikins



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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    I can't see Khudobin having any value in a 12 team start 2 goalie league, nor Monahan in a limited keeper, so including them really doesn't add anything. I think you would have to start with Neal and a 1st, or Neal + another keeper, maybe one of your defensemen? How is his defense? That would be a good place to start I think. Barring that, you could consider Neal/Varly for Benn/Mason, as your goaltending isn't too bad, and you should be able to pick someone up who's serviceable in a H2H. (I think Varlamov's value is as high as it will be right now anyways, so it's a good time to sell in my opinion).

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    Quote Originally Posted by Savvy1982 View Post
    As a Benn owner, neither offer would even vaguely entice me.

    But who knows, maybe this guy really loves Khudobin?
    Thanks for your input (as a Benn owner)... last thing i want to do is if i get a response is have it shut down by what may be perceived a weak offer. Not sure about Khudo, just playing the angle of not a lot out there.
    12 Team Keeper (keep 14)
    G,A,+/-,PIMS, GWG, W,SA, SO

    C - Seguin, Monahan, RNH
    RW - Mackinnon, Duchene, Hornqvist
    LW -Hoffman, Marleau, Panik,
    D - Fowler, Hedman, Ristolainen, Barrie, Klefbom, Goligoski
    Util - Coyle, Tatar, Little, Ladd,
    Goalie - Rask, Varly
    , Grubauer, Forsberg, Bobby Lou

    2013/2014 League Champion

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    1) Neal, Khudobin (he owns Ward / Mason / Harding in a start 2) plus i would entertain a draft pick prob 2nd or 3rd rounder.
    So, for this one it basically breaks down like:
    Neal (see him as a 50-65upside player now until proven otherwise) << Benn (close to a PPG and multi cat studd)
    So to even out the trade you offer up Khudobin. Khudobin MAY be the future in Carolina, but for right now, he's a back up. Would this GM keep a back up goaltender?
    And a draft pick.

    Analysis - As the Benn owner, I'd prefer Benn over Neal and even with what appears to be limited goaltending, I think I'd feel better with Ward, Mason and Benn than Ward/Khudobin, Mason and Neal. a 2nd rounder, especially in an expansion year, I think wouldn't garner anything (other than a flyer on a young prospect) worth tipping the scales in favor of the Benn Owner.

    Result - Decline

    or

    2) Neal, Khudobin and Monahan (i would prefer to keep monahan, but have marchand to keep if i must - I do know he is not high on marchand)
    This doesn't change the fact that IMO... Benn is still worth substantially more than Neal.
    so to even out the trade you offer up Khudobin (see above) and Monohan. Monohan is probably better than what the OGM could get with a 2nd or 3rd round pick in the expansion draft but would he be kept on the OGM's roster? You mention his goaltending is week... how are his forwards? would Monhan be a locked keeper? If so then I like this deal better but in the end... as the Benn Owner, I think I'd sooner keep him and my weak goaltending.

    IF i trully wanted to upgrade my goaltending, I'd probably shop Benn for a proven top 10-15 goaltender rather than a back up with potential. E.G. I'd be more interested in Allen than Khudobin BTW as well, but likely not enough to lose Benn For.

    Maybe it would help if was had the OGM's roster so that we can see if there are any glaring holes that you could better fix for him.

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    Quote Originally Posted by 2 for diving View Post
    Thanks for your input (as a Benn owner)... last thing i want to do is if i get a response is have it shut down by what may be perceived a weak offer. Not sure about Khudo, just playing the angle of not a lot out there.
    To be fair, I'm in a multicat, where Benn's Hits, Blocks, Shots, & FOW make him my second best player after Nicklas Backstrom, but I still wouldn't take either offer in your league settings.
    18 Team Full Keeper. Total points.

    Start 10 F, 3 D, 1 UTIL, 1 G

    3 Points: SHO, 2 Points: G, PPA, SHG, SHA, W, 1 Point: A, PPG, GWG, .25 Points: BLK, .1 Points: FOW, SOG, SV, .15 Points: HIT, -.05 Points: FOL, -.15 Points: GA

    Forwards: Backstrom, Barre-Boulet, Beauvillier, Caufield, Dickinson, Donato, Donskoi, Gourde, Greenway, Horvat, Kase, Keller, Kuznetsov, MacKinnon, Marchessault, J. T. Miller, Sikura, Tarasenko, Zegras

    Defense: Barrie, Brannstrom, Cholowski, Honka, Matheson, Pulock, Shattenkirk

    Goal: Dubnyk, Jarry, Markstrom, Merzlikins



    2014-15, 2016-17 MHL Champions!

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    As a Benn owner I also wouldn't consider either offer, but I felt it unfair to comment in that regard as he is almost untouchable for me as I love the combo. If I were you I would be willing to give up Nichuskin in part of the package to get Benn. Duos are more likely to stay together than trios, so get the best duo, and keep the trio if you can.

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    I agree with havanablast's analysis here, neither of these deals would peak my interest at all. I know hindsight is 20/20 but you should have proposed these deals last year before he blew up, now youre going to hasve to really pay if you want to get him
    12 Team Yahoo H2H
    G A PIM +/- PPP SHP HITS GWG
    W GAA S% SO
    C: Tavares,Giroux,Kopitar,Stepan
    LW: Benn, Kunitz, Lupul, Elias
    RW: Eberle, Wheeler, Hornqvist
    D: Giordano, Yandle, Barrie, Carlson, Zidlicky
    G: Niemi, Bishop

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    As a Benn owner I also wouldn't consider either offer, but I felt it unfair to comment in that regard as he is almost untouchable for me as I love the combo. If I were you I would be willing to give up Nichuskin in part of the package to get Benn. Duos are more likely to stay together than trios, so get the best duo, and keep the trio if you can.

    Interesting insight... this may be the better angle to get the Seguin / Benn which is the desired result.
    12 Team Keeper (keep 14)
    G,A,+/-,PIMS, GWG, W,SA, SO

    C - Seguin, Monahan, RNH
    RW - Mackinnon, Duchene, Hornqvist
    LW -Hoffman, Marleau, Panik,
    D - Fowler, Hedman, Ristolainen, Barrie, Klefbom, Goligoski
    Util - Coyle, Tatar, Little, Ladd,
    Goalie - Rask, Varly
    , Grubauer, Forsberg, Bobby Lou

    2013/2014 League Champion

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
    I agree with havanablast's analysis here, neither of these deals would peak my interest at all. I know hindsight is 20/20 but you should have proposed these deals last year before he blew up, now youre going to hasve to really pay if you want to get him
    I agree - I was hopeful last year (just before Benn got his name out there) that i could have done Neal for Benn straight up - but no responses from the OGM hurt me to try and make a deal. Agree i have to prob pay a bit more now (at least its not Mackinnon asking prices )
    12 Team Keeper (keep 14)
    G,A,+/-,PIMS, GWG, W,SA, SO

    C - Seguin, Monahan, RNH
    RW - Mackinnon, Duchene, Hornqvist
    LW -Hoffman, Marleau, Panik,
    D - Fowler, Hedman, Ristolainen, Barrie, Klefbom, Goligoski
    Util - Coyle, Tatar, Little, Ladd,
    Goalie - Rask, Varly
    , Grubauer, Forsberg, Bobby Lou

    2013/2014 League Champion

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    As a Benn owner I also wouldn't consider either offer, but I felt it unfair to comment in that regard as he is almost untouchable for me as I love the combo. If I were you I would be willing to give up Nichuskin in part of the package to get Benn. Duos are more likely to stay together than trios, so get the best duo, and keep the trio if you can.

    Brilliant rataylor22! To be honest, I didn't really think about the Strength in DUO vs TRIO angle. You're post made me.

    How many CEMENTED elite trio's are there in the league?

    Getz/Perry - need a LW
    Ovie and Backstrom have a rotating LW
    Crosby and Kunitz usually have Dupuis, but by no means cemented
    Tavares and Okposo looking for a RW
    Clearly Segs/Benn ... but is Nich a lock?
    Thornton/Marleau ... no longer have Burns
    Stamkos/MSL (At the time) ... a while back Lecav, but even he was dropped as Stamkos/MSL thrived.

    RNH/EBERLE/HALL were not exclusive last year with Hall playing time on 1st and 2nd line.

    It wasn't until last year that Kessel/Bozak found JVR... not it one could argue that it's Kessel/JVR (Bozak is replaceable...maybe he always was).

    Point is... well... the point is RATAYLOR's point. Maybe the strength is in the DUO and reaching for the trio is unlikely or perhaps not even worth it.

    having said that...upgrading to Benn from Nich to pair up with Seg's ends up being a HUGE upgrade for you.

    I would definitely consider mutiple moves to get Benn.

    Neal/Nich/Varly
    for
    Benn/Mason/maybe a borderline keeper.

    Youre goaltending then becomes

    Rask
    Mason
    Allen (who is quite likely 1 year away from being the undisputed #1 on one of the League's most defensively sound and strong teams).

    You lose Neal AND Nich, but then I would consider keeping Marchand a/o Monohan or try to flip one or both for a slightly better forward.

    In the end:
    You cash in on a career year from Varly...will he do it again? who knows
    You cash in on the plummetting stock of Neal
    You cash in on the 1 year hype of Nich

    you get... A substantially better forward (in the wake of the Neal trade
    you do should a slight risk with Mason (who showed flashed of brilliance last year on an ever improving flyers team) which also then forces your hand to commit to Allen (which you clearly want to do if he's a keeper for you now)

    You do pay a premium, but as another poster stated... Benn comes with a premium and his value will only go up from here.

    But what do I know!? lol

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    I really like the deal Havana proposed. I wlould offer that, it should get it done, and then keep Monahan.

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    I really like the deal Havana proposed. I wlould offer that, it should get it done, and then keep Monahan.
    I would start with Neal/Varly for Benn/Mason as I mentioned earlier and only add Nichushkin if absolutely necessary. Varly had such a great year you should be able to cash in on that.

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    Default Re: Trading for Benn

    So I have put an offer out there.. (and thanks everyone for the sound advice / different viewpoints - value add in the forum right there!!)

    Offered Neal / Varly / Monahan for Benn / Mason. I figured Monahan was a last round draft pick for me last year, and I have enough options to fill a final keeper spot. I can substitute with Nich if needed but will see if i can get it done without at this point.

    Rep for all (where i can)
    12 Team Keeper (keep 14)
    G,A,+/-,PIMS, GWG, W,SA, SO

    C - Seguin, Monahan, RNH
    RW - Mackinnon, Duchene, Hornqvist
    LW -Hoffman, Marleau, Panik,
    D - Fowler, Hedman, Ristolainen, Barrie, Klefbom, Goligoski
    Util - Coyle, Tatar, Little, Ladd,
    Goalie - Rask, Varly
    , Grubauer, Forsberg, Bobby Lou

    2013/2014 League Champion

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