General question about trading players in different positions.

[audiopile]

I'm looking for some opinions and advice on how to handle these types of trades. Is the value of a 40 point D equivalent to a 60 point forward? Or a top-10 goalie for a 60 point forward?
I'm still new to this and my pool is rather deep with 360 players (League set-up in sig.). I'm finding it really tough to find fair trades. Also, our league feels a bit lop-sided and I'm near the bottom. The top 3 guys had around 1250 pts and I was at around 900. I need to get my 40 point avg/player up to 60 points so when I see a deal like this it seems good, but I'm just not sure.

Is OEL for Skinner fair? If not, how do you go about balancing something like this out? How relevant is the rest of our roster?

All thoughts are welcome.

[Pengwin7]

Relative value is typically based on one of two benchmarks:

1) The last "counting" player
2) The waiver wire player

Questions:
i) How many teams in your league?
ii) How many players at each position?

What I usually do is count the "counting players", so a 12-team 9F/6D format "counts" 108F and 72D. (You can also consider including "bench" players in your count, if it is a "daily set" league and your bench players get used.)
Then I look at past full years of NHL stats and find out the point-total of forward #108F and defenseman #72D.

Last year, for example:
F #108 scored 43pts. Thus, if you value Skinner at 60pts, he's a relative +17pt player.
D #72 scored 23pts. Thus, if you value OEL at 45pts, he's a relative +22pt player.
From there, I'll compare trade value players to these amounts.

In this case, OEL > Skinner... which most of us would probably suggest, without even doing the calculation.

And generally, yeah... it's something like a 20pt difference... 60pt forwards ~ 40pt defenseman... in most leagues.

But this is how to do the math. (or... at least, how I do it.)

[rataylor22]

This is pretty much a perfect question for one of P7s breakdowns. Hopefully he jumps on an does one haha.

[Mr. Guru]

and there you go.

[rataylor22]

and there you go.

God he even beat me to saying he should respond lol. What a beast.

[Pengwin7]

God he even beat me to saying he should respond lol. What a beast.

LOL. Thanks!
Last night, my men's league team got absolutely shellacked by the young 20-something kid team that entered our league this season.
We took like 20 penalties because we were so frustrated that we were getting pounded.
We have one guy on the team named "Dave"... and he took several penalties.

After the game, in the lockerroom - we are talking about Dave and somebody says "Dave's a beast".
Which made me smile (and I remember this story because you say "beast").
But I paused and said "No... Dave's a killer. Dave's a killer!!"

Moral of the Story: It is fun when you know the right thing to say!

[audiopile]

Relative value is typically based on one of two benchmarks:

1) The last "counting" player
2) The waiver wire player

Questions:
i) How many teams in your league?
ii) How many players at each position?

What I usually do is count the "counting players", so a 12-team 9F/6D format "counts" 108F and 72D. (You can also consider including "bench" players in your count, if it is a "daily set" league and your bench players get used.)
Then I look at past full years of NHL stats and find out the point-total of forward #108F and defenseman #72D.

Last year, for example:
F #108 scored 43pts. Thus, if you value Skinner at 60pts, he's a relative +17pt player.
D #72 scored 23pts. Thus, if you value OEL at 45pts, he's a relative +22pt player.
From there, I'll compare trade value players to these amounts.

In this case, OEL > Skinner... which most of us would probably suggest, without even doing the calculation.

And generally, yeah... it's something like a 20pt difference... 60pt forwards ~ 40pt defenseman... in most leagues.

But this is how to do the math. (or... at least, how I do it.)

That is a good system for levelling the field, rep given! My gut told me OEL > Skinner, and your math supports it too. So I tried to "level" it a bit, by adding his Strome and said he could take one of my 40pt F. No response.

Our league is 10 teams with 15F dressed and many more on the bench. It's tough to gain any traction when the top 200F are already taken.

[Axeman33]

Relative value is typically based on one of two benchmarks:

1) The last "counting" player
2) The waiver wire player

Questions:
i) How many teams in your league?
ii) How many players at each position?

What I usually do is count the "counting players", so a 12-team 9F/6D format "counts" 108F and 72D. (You can also consider including "bench" players in your count, if it is a "daily set" league and your bench players get used.)
Then I look at past full years of NHL stats and find out the point-total of forward #108F and defenseman #72D.

Last year, for example:
F #108 scored 43pts. Thus, if you value Skinner at 60pts, he's a relative +17pt player.
D #72 scored 23pts. Thus, if you value OEL at 45pts, he's a relative +22pt player.
From there, I'll compare trade value players to these amounts.

In this case, OEL > Skinner... which most of us would probably suggest, without even doing the calculation.

And generally, yeah... it's something like a 20pt difference... 60pt forwards ~ 40pt defenseman... in most leagues.

But this is how to do the math. (or... at least, how I do it.)

I agree with your calculations and way of thinking when comparing an offensive Dman to a forward. Unfortunately most in my leagues don't see it this way. Trying to trade a 40pt Dman like Roman Josi for a 60pt forward is like pulling teeth. It barely happens even though I agree it should be a fair trade for both sides.

[rataylor22]

I agree with your calculations and way of thinking when comparing an offensive Dman to a forward. Unfortunately most in my leagues don't see it this way. Trying to trade a 40pt Dman like Roman Josi for a 60pt forward is like pulling teeth. It barely happens even though I agree it should be a fair trade for both sides.

My league is like this too. I doubt I could trade Josi for a third round pick this year (and keep in mind we have 12 teams all keeping 17 players...that's over 200 players already off the board!) so the third round is players like 229-240, and as such why I don't even consider keeping him. He should be an easy redraft for me next season, while Yak and Toffoli and the new draft picks all might be first rounders

[Zorro]

Personally, I keep OEL over Skinner..

There are a lot more 50-60 point forwards out there then there are 40-50 point dmen..

[doulos]

My league is like this too. I doubt I could trade Josi for a third round pick this year (and keep in mind we have 12 teams all keeping 17 players...that's over 200 players already off the board!) so the third round is players like 229-240, and as such why I don't even consider keeping him. He should be an easy redraft for me next season, while Yak and Toffoli and the new draft picks all might be first rounders

I hope you're winning this league. Sounds like a good situation for you!

[gfunkb7]

I agree with your calculations and way of thinking when comparing an offensive Dman to a forward. Unfortunately most in my leagues don't see it this way. Trying to trade a 40pt Dman like Roman Josi for a 60pt forward is like pulling teeth. It barely happens even though I agree it should be a fair trade for both sides.

In my 12 team league, im the only one that keeps 3 defs (above 50pts plus multicat) and dress minimum 6 defence. And other GMs continuously downplay my strategy. Well, Pengwin7's system, amongst other things, got me two championship in a row.

D's have the lowest trade value and being the most neglected asset while being the most important position IMO