Antti Niemi or Steve Mason

[havanablast21]

In my opinion:

Niemi > Mason

Make it 2 for me. Like Niemi and his team better.

[BradyJets]

I think I'd keep Schneider and Mason, but I really still like Niemi. He's on a great team to still be a good goalie. I own both Mason and Niemi, and I'm not sure which I'd trade if I had to.

[CascadeFilly]

Niemi for me. Mason could wind up with more points in your format, but there's genuine stability in Niemi, and the ceiling for Mason isn't worth the associated uncertainty. In other words, I'd sleep better with Niemi on my team. And I like my sleep.

[Savvy1982]

Some votes for Niemi, some for Mason.

Still conflicted here...

[MXHockey]

Niemi for me, more proven, better team.

[petegreg21]

Some votes for Niemi, some for Mason.

Still conflicted here...

Who do you think would hold better trade value in your league? Cause personally I think Mason will be the better goaltender to own, but Niemi probably has better trade value solely based on track records. Mason is still viewed by many as a slouch while Niemi is still viewed by many as a workhorse top goalie.

[Pengwin7]

Niemi, for me.

re: Mason.
Pressure. Performance.
Remember how great Mason was in his rookie year with Columbus. Then he fell apart.
People have their theories on what happened there. I know a couple forum members said "teams learned to beat him", but then he comes to Philly and does OK - did teams/players forget how to beat him?
No... no.

For goalies, a lot of the performance is about pressure and expectations.
Mason in PHI had a cozy, cozy spot. People always ra-ra about how difficult it is for a goalie in PHI... and it's TRUE... like Toronto, it's a difficult place to play.
But PHI had just come off an incredibly disappointing investment of Bryzgalov. Spent too much, got zero return. Fans are thinking "Pick anybody to put back there and ditch this clown".
I equate it to any president following George W Bush into the White House... whoever it be... they could do no wrong, because they are following a train wreck.

Back to Mason.
So - I actually predicted that Mason would be a decent fit in PHI because of the "zero pressure" following Bryz.
But guess what, the season of zero expectations is gone, buh-bye.
THIS year, PHI fans will expect performance from Mason and without Timonen, that blueline looks close to awful.
I think Mason falls apart, not Columbus-Mason... but won't match any of his totals from 2013-2014.

Even though San Jose lost Boyle, they still have some solid defensive defenseman, much better than PHI.
And, I think it's fair to say that Niemi, by pure goalie skill, is better than Mason. (By typical year SV%).

SJ is still a very, very good team and will win a lot of regular season games.
PHI has all the pieces to be a very, very good team. But the defense is poor and they did move out Hartnell.
I have my concerns with PHI... they could go either way.
SJ will be solid though.

Also, consider that this is Niemi's final year of contract.
San Jose has NOTHING to gain by playing Stalock a lot.

If they bench Niemi, he has no trade value.
If Stalock succeeds, they'll be paying the big bucks to Stalock in summer 2016, because I don't think they can re-up Stalock until next summer, at earliest.


Predictions:
Niemi: 62gp, 35w, 2.40gaa, .915sv%
Mason: 60gp, 32w, 2.65gaa, .908sv%

I'm actually buying on Ray Emery late in one-year pools this year.

[loco man]

pop over to the "San Jose goalie situation" thread for lots of discussion regarding Niemi vs Stalock if that helps you decide.

I have zero faith in Philly's D but at least Mason is the undisputed #1. I know there are many who believe that Niemi is still the man in SJ, but it looks like it is an open competition and with SJ starting 9/12 or something on the road, a poor start out of the gate could spell disaster for Niemi.

If you are on the side who believes that Niemi is the man in SJ then roll with him, as SJ is better than Philly, but if you question him as I do, take the sure thing in Mason and a maybe a couple of sleeping pills

[Savvy1982]

Niemi, for me.

re: Mason.
Pressure. Performance.
Remember how great Mason was in his rookie year with Columbus. Then he fell apart.
People have their theories on what happened there. I know a couple forum members said "teams learned to beat him", but then he comes to Philly and does OK - did teams/players forget how to beat him?
No... no.

For goalies, a lot of the performance is about pressure and expectations.
Mason in PHI had a cozy, cozy spot. People always ra-ra about how difficult it is for a goalie in PHI... and it's TRUE... like Toronto, it's a difficult place to play.
But PHI had just come off an incredibly disappointing investment of Bryzgalov. Spent too much, got zero return. Fans are thinking "Pick anybody to put back there and ditch this clown".
I equate it to any president following George W Bush into the White House... whoever it be... they could do no wrong, because they are following a train wreck.

Back to Mason.
So - I actually predicted that Mason would be a decent fit in PHI because of the "zero pressure" following Bryz.
But guess what, the season of zero expectations is gone, buh-bye.
THIS year, PHI fans will expect performance from Mason and without Timonen, that blueline looks close to awful.
I think Mason falls apart, not Columbus-Mason... but won't match any of his totals from 2013-2014.

Even though San Jose lost Boyle, they still have some solid defensive defenseman, much better than PHI.
And, I think it's fair to say that Niemi, by pure goalie skill, is better than Mason. (By typical year SV%).

SJ is still a very, very good team and will win a lot of regular season games.
PHI has all the pieces to be a very, very good team. But the defense is poor and they did move out Hartnell.
I have my concerns with PHI... they could go either way.
SJ will be solid though.

Also, consider that this is Niemi's final year of contract.
San Jose has NOTHING to gain by playing Stalock a lot.

If they bench Niemi, he has no trade value.
If Stalock succeeds, they'll be paying the big bucks to Stalock in summer 2016, because I don't think they can re-up Stalock until next summer, at earliest.


Predictions:
Niemi: 62gp, 35w, 2.40gaa, .915sv%
Mason: 60gp, 32w, 2.65gaa, .908sv%

I'm actually buying on Ray Emery late in one-year pools this year.

Pengwin - you are an absolute treasure on these forums. Never leave us.

Thank you so much for this - I will stick with Niemi this year.

[Savvy1982]

Are Niemi and Mason unreliable enough that I should go with a more confirmed starter, like Luongo?

[vitun-tyhmä]

Neimi, Mason and Luongo should all be starters but Luongo is the only one I am confident will start most of his games

[kekay_20]

these 3 are so close that it is hard to say...i would go with schenider and mason
HOWEVER, i would hold all three for a few weeks. someone will need a goalie after the first 2 weeks and you can make a trade then
and send off who you don't want

[Savvy1982]

Thanks everyone - I ended up offering Mason for Luongo straight across - thanks for the input!

[STLblues]

Niemi

[LawMan]

Niemi is clearly the better goalie. In more standard formats (W, GAA, SV%) Niemi is the hands down favourite.
But your format is unique.

Let's look at a fairly typical goalie start: 25 Saves, and 2 GA. That nets 2.2 points (1.95 for 3 GA), then add 2 more points if it's a win (and another 3 for a shutout).
A brutal game where your goalie gets shelled with 40 saves and 6 GA is actually better scoring 3.1 points.
You want a goalie who plays lots and sees a high number of shots, ideally on a team that also scores a high number of goals.

It is next to impossible for a goalie to lose points in a start.

All this adds up to me wanting the guy who is going to start the most games and face the most shots.
Last season Philly allowed 30.6/game whereas SJ allowed 27.8/game

That means Philly goalies could allow a whole goal more per game and still score more points in the SV/GA portion.
Now SJ had 51 wins to Philly's 42 (Niemi 39 Mason 33) sot that makes up for the fewer shots.

I think this year Niemi gets a few less starts and San Jose wins a few less games. Mason is the undisputed #1, Emery had a chance last year to fight for that job and fell flat.
Niemi is also the #1 but there's some rumbling about succession to Stalock and he's very capable of winning games. It may not even be losing his spot just that the Sharks are more confident they can get a win with Stalock then Philly with Emery. Also, Philly's conference is much weaker relative to San Jose's.

All in all I think given your format Mason will outscore Niemi this year. All that being said I suspect Niemi has a trade value that is quite high. Given that you have 3 undisputed #1's I'd look to keep all and move one in the early season to a guy who realizes he only has 1 starter or who faces a tough injury. When that happens I suspect you get a big return for Niemi then you rotate in Mason and your team is much better off.