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Thread: Climate Change Denying

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    Default Climate Change Denying

    I have to give kudos to the Dobber faithful, because most of the people in here have a firm grasp of logic. I've even been schooled myself in my faulty logic sometimes.
    My most recent beef is with climate change deniers.
    I am far from an expert on the topic.
    My beef is with skeptics who cherry pick evidence to support their skepticism, while ignoring the overwhelming evidence out there that:
    a) Climate change is not only a real concern, and has been for decades, but also...
    b) It's changing rapidly because of human activity

    The most recent evidence of deniers slowly winning this debate came from a billboard I saw in Calgary that stated "The sun is the main driver of climate change. Not you. Not CO2."

    I am curious to see how many Dobber faithful view that sort of billboard as incredibly irresponsible.

    As I learn more about this, it seems obvious to me that multi-billion dollar energy companies have an obvious interest in promoting the "myth" of human-caused climate change.
    Is that perception of mine inaccurate?
    I fail to see the economic motivation for proponents of climate change. Is there money to be made from taking this perspective? Sure, of course. But I think it pales in comparison to the money that will be lost by oil companies should environmental concerns ever be taken really seriously.

    Open minded to all responses... like I said, I am far from an expert in this area. Thanks all.

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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    It's easier to be in denial.................
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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    I always like to keep an eye out for the 'technically true' arguments that get thrown out.

    In the case of climate change the common one seems to be: 'there is no scientific consensus'. A great BS line if there ever was one. So long as you have one dissenting opinion it is technically true. The funny thing is that the flip-side (8 out of 10 doctors agree!) is used in marketing all the time... I'm just waiting for Colgate's rivals to hit back with a 'no consensus' attack ad.

    My other favourite is when they say a product has been clinically (or scientifically) tested. That sounds cool but means jack squat. You could say that toilet paper has been scientifically tested as an anti-ballistic vest (assuming you did the test) but it doesn't mean that it will do anything other than soak up the blood around the entrance and exit wounds.


    Ah well, just remember that it never hurts to take a moment to think about who is telling you something, and why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MolsonX View Post
    It's easier to be in denial.................
    Not these days, the Nile delta is shrinking... because of climate change.
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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    As an environmental scientist and proper "greeny" it actually gets to me on a whole other level..

    I use to know a lot of technical stuff, back in my uni days, but most of that has been forgotten by too many pints and time.

    There is a lot of money to be made by limiting climate change, tourism being a big point of interest. Antarctic tourism, great barrier reef, small tropical islands etc etc ... that's just tourism. What about the desertification of historical crop and cattle lands.... the loss of more and more of these areas to arid wastelands, perhaps when it starts effecting their waistline these fat cats might take notice... unlikely. There are dozens of excellent reasons to curb emissions.... but...

    The fact is the bottom line is what drives these a**holes and there's not much that'll change that... to them money >>>> Environment, and probably always will be.

    There's also always going to be stupid people out there who believe everything they read or see on TV... its going to be an ongoing battle.

    Saying the sun drives climate change is a dumbest excuse/reason I've heard yet to deny climate change.
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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    As long as people feel like they can ignore it and kick the bucket down the road for someone else to clean up, they will do that. I'm pretty pessimistic on this issue, but I doubt anything will change until it's far too late to really do anything about it.

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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    B...b..b..but the Sun DOES drive climate change.


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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Quote Originally Posted by austeane View Post
    B...b..b..but the Sun DOES drive climate change.


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    haha, no it doesn't... that would be the rotation of the earth...
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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Quote Originally Posted by eyemissgilmour View Post
    I have to give kudos to the Dobber faithful, because most of the people in here have a firm grasp of logic. I've even been schooled myself in my faulty logic sometimes.
    My most recent beef is with climate change deniers.
    I am far from an expert on the topic.
    My beef is with skeptics who cherry pick evidence to support their skepticism, while ignoring the overwhelming evidence out there that:
    a) Climate change is not only a real concern, and has been for decades, but also...
    b) It's changing rapidly because of human activity

    The most recent evidence of deniers slowly winning this debate came from a billboard I saw in Calgary that stated "The sun is the main driver of climate change. Not you. Not CO2."

    I am curious to see how many Dobber faithful view that sort of billboard as incredibly irresponsible.

    As I learn more about this, it seems obvious to me that multi-billion dollar energy companies have an obvious interest in promoting the "myth" of human-caused climate change.
    Is that perception of mine inaccurate?
    I fail to see the economic motivation for proponents of climate change. Is there money to be made from taking this perspective? Sure, of course. But I think it pales in comparison to the money that will be lost by oil companies should environmental concerns ever be taken really seriously.

    Open minded to all responses... like I said, I am far from an expert in this area. Thanks all.
    As a graduate student researching climate change, yes, it is incredibly irresponsible. I could go on a massive rant, but instead I have lost my desire as I have to deal with this crap every day.

    Similar to what you indicated, it comes down to one simple thing: there has been scientific consensus for decades, models have been surprisingly accurate at predicting the warming from increasing CO2 concentrations, and what we are witnessing now is exactly what we witnessed through the 20th century with the movement away from cigarettes. It is not worth giving deniers the floor to 'argue', because there is nothing to argue. The worst thing we can do is make it seem like there is a debate, which is precisely what media does: they frame a 'denier' (usually a random or a politician) against a climate scientist, 1 for 1. It's interesting... any survey of the 'public' often generates results that show they believe there is 50% consensus, which is exactly what media frames it as.

    Now about how what we are witnessing is the same as the tobacco thing... The only difference: far, far more money is involved in oil than was in cigarettes. It's astonishing. You have decades of scientific evidence, only continued delay in political support due to lobbying, misinformation campaigns, etc. Even if you look up any of the fake studies that come out against climate change (ones done by consulting firms, non-peer reviewed), the most common authors are from companies like The Heartland Institute, which were the exact same companies that put out all the studies claiming smoking is not bad for you.

    Anyhow, this was probably an incoherent ramble as I was multi-tasking but the bottom line is this: there is no debate, there hasn't been a debate for centuries, and most studies estimate climate change will cost developed countries anywhere from 3% to 25% of our GDP per year by 2050. Yeah... you read that correctly. Up to 25% of GDP per year. Lets get ready for a big economic collapse.. a permanent one.

    F***. Meanwhile, the developing country will get hit the worst - even though we are responsible for most of the current concentration of atmospheric CO2. Feels good, huh? Ugh.

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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Quote Originally Posted by jcairns View Post
    As a graduate student researching climate change, yes, it is incredibly irresponsible. I could go on a massive rant, but instead I have lost my desire as I have to deal with this crap every day.

    Similar to what you indicated, it comes down to one simple thing: there has been scientific consensus for decades, models have been surprisingly accurate at predicting the warming from increasing CO2 concentrations, and what we are witnessing now is exactly what we witnessed through the 20th century with the movement away from cigarettes. It is not worth giving deniers the floor to 'argue', because there is nothing to argue. The worst thing we can do is make it seem like there is a debate, which is precisely what media does: they frame a 'denier' (usually a random or a politician) against a climate scientist, 1 for 1. It's interesting... any survey of the 'public' often generates results that show they believe there is 50% consensus, which is exactly what media frames it as.

    Now about how what we are witnessing is the same as the tobacco thing... The only difference: far, far more money is involved in oil than was in cigarettes. It's astonishing. You have decades of scientific evidence, only continued delay in political support due to lobbying, misinformation campaigns, etc. Even if you look up any of the fake studies that come out against climate change (ones done by consulting firms, non-peer reviewed), the most common authors are from companies like The Heartland Institute, which were the exact same companies that put out all the studies claiming smoking is not bad for you.

    Anyhow, this was probably an incoherent ramble as I was multi-tasking but the bottom line is this: there is no debate, there hasn't been a debate for centuries, and most studies estimate climate change will cost developed countries anywhere from 3% to 25% of our GDP per year by 2050. Yeah... you read that correctly. Up to 25% of GDP per year. Lets get ready for a big economic collapse.. a permanent one.

    F***.

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    Good post +1

    Interesting analogy in the comparison to cigarette smoking. Just remember it isn't caused by humans but we certainly aid to climate change. A lot of people don't get this.... Climates have always changed over time, humans are just accelerating the process with our polluting ways, and quite drastically too.
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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Well, at least scientists in Canada are allowed to freely share and publish their scientific findings on this and many other scientific issues.

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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    We're all going to die. You all realize this, yes? I know it sucks to admit, but it's true. We are all going to die on this stupid planet, all because some privileged jagoffs wanted to hoard all the jewels. It's a pretty messed up world, and the scientific consensus is basically that we've already crossed the safe threshold of carbon in the air for humans (35 parts per million carbons or whatever), and it's basically impossible to remedy the situation and stem the tide of rapid climate change. We're pretty screwed. Times like these make me really glad things like hockey exist to take my mind off everything. But damn ... it really is astounding that we've gotten ourselves here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sasquatch View Post
    Good post +1

    Interesting analogy in the comparison to cigarette smoking. Just remember it isn't caused by humans but we certainly aid to climate change. A lot of people don't get this.... Climates have always changed over time, humans are just accelerating the process with our polluting ways, and quite drastically too.
    This analogy would be better if everyone died of lung cancer in the end because smokers smoked too much and destroyed the earth.
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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Quote Originally Posted by 27Blue View Post
    Well, at least scientists in Canada are allowed to freely share and publish their scientific findings on this and many other scientific issues.
    Shit, if only that were even remotely true.

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/global-researc...tists-1.770203

    The current government isn't big on scientists releasing findings that aren't on point with the government's position.
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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Quote Originally Posted by Loch View Post
    Shit, if only that were even remotely true.

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/global-researc...tists-1.770203

    The current government isn't big on scientists releasing findings that aren't on point with the government's position.
    yeah, i was being sarcastic...

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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Quote Originally Posted by 27Blue View Post
    yeah, i was being sarcastic...
    Ah, yes.... in that case you nailed it.
    /S

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    Default Re: Climate Change Denying

    Climate change denial is on the same level as young earth creationism. It's either insanity or obtuse ignorance on a dangerous level.

    I'm glad neither of the two has a voice here in Sweden. It's just not up for debate here.
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