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Thread: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

  1. #46
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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    To me, a top pairing Dman is relative to a teams needs.

    For example, is Dion Phaneuf a top pairing Dman in St Louis? Not in most peoples minds.

    Is Dion Phaneuf a top pair Dman in Toronto? Yep, and I think that's why he's paid like it.

    It's all relative to a teams needs.
    That only goes so far though...Toronto has this mentality that they have to overpay for everyone. They need to take a page from cheap-ass Melnyk and be a little more frugal to keep themselves more cap-friendly

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Are we dropping this now, or are we gonna keep going? I can save you time

    Someone will say something about mcgoo's post that nobody will care about tomorrow
    Mcgoo will respond to that something with a reply that nobody will care about tomorrow
    That someone, or maybe someone else, will reply to that reply, but it will be words that nobody will remember in an hour
    Mcgoo will respond to that with more stuff that nobody will remember or care about

    Let's just say that everyone involved in the argument wins the Internet.

    And get back to how Phaneuf is a good defenseman who the Panthers will not get because first overall is not worth both him and Kadri.
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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by mister_mcgoo View Post
    That only goes so far though...Toronto has this mentality that they have to overpay for everyone. They need to take a page from cheap-ass Melnyk and be a little more frugal to keep themselves more cap-friendly
    They probably had to offer Phaneuf an extra 1.5-2M to take all of the abuse that he does.

    To me, Phaneuf IS a top pair defenceman, but he's not a #1 defenceman and it sure as hell doesn't help when he's playing with Carl Gunnarson or Tim Gleason.

    You look at his time in Calgary when he was an absolute force... Anybody, please correct me if I'm wrong, but Phaneuf played the majority of the time with a very solid and very reliable Robyn Regehr. He was able to jump into plays, create scoring chances, take risks and he had somebody to protect him. Now he's forced to be the man all over the place and that just isn't his game. The answer isn't to ship this guy out, it's to get him somebody good to play with.

    Pay is all relative, as it has been stated previously in this thread, but c'mon, Phaneuf (8M) is making the 3rd highest salary out of any defenceman in the league behind only Weber and Suter.

    Let's jet say if I'm PK Subban, I'm walking into Bergevin's office saying "Phaneuf makes 8, I want 10"

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobber View Post
    Are we dropping this now, or are we gonna keep going? I can save you time
    Already dropped. I made my point.


    And get back to how Phaneuf is a good defenseman who the Panthers will not get because first overall is not worth both him and Kadri.
    It's got nothing to do with the relative value of the players in this make believe deal IMO, if we're just going off pure value then yeah of course Phaneuf+Kadri is worth more than an unknown prospect in a weak draft year.
    But I'm trying to look at this from the perspective of each team and it just makes zero sense for FLA the way I see it. They're on the right track, they're a few years off yet but if they keep on like they have been the last couple years they'll be looking more like TB and less like the Panthers.

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by petegreg21 View Post

    Let's jet say if I'm PK Subban, I'm walking into Bergevin's office saying "Phaneuf makes 8, I want 10"
    This is perspective, wow, maybe Subban does get 10m/year

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by MolsonX View Post
    This is perspective, wow, maybe Subban does get 10m/year
    Subban will say - Phaneuf 8, me 10
    Bergervin will say - Keith 5.5, you 5.4

    Two can play at that game
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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobber View Post
    Subban will say - Phaneuf 8, me 10
    Bergervin will say - Keith 5.5, you 5.4

    Two can play at that game
    Yeah but we know who's likely to win that game...I say Subban gets 8-9mil easily

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by Dobber View Post
    Subban will say - Phaneuf 8, me 10
    Bergervin will say - Keith 5.5, you 5.4

    Two can play at that game
    Keith made 7.6M this season but his deal is one of those front loaded ones so the cap hit is only 5.5M, however I see your point.

    In all likelihood Subban gets a contract like Doughty's. 8 years, 7M all the way across. Easy peasy.

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    When is Subban eligible to be a UFA?

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by MolsonX View Post
    When is Subban eligible to be a UFA?
    I believe the rule is either age 27 or 7 years in the NHL, whichever comes first. So PK has 2 more years either way.

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by petegreg21 View Post
    I believe the rule is either age 27 or 7 years in the NHL, whichever comes first. So PK has 2 more years either way.
    Interesting........my guess is he signs for 4 years @ 8.5m/year.

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Quote Originally Posted by petegreg21 View Post
    Keith made 7.6M this season but his deal is one of those front loaded ones so the cap hit is only 5.5M, however I see your point.

    In all likelihood Subban gets a contract like Doughty's. 8 years, 7M all the way across. Easy peasy.
    If you just look at the first eight years of Keith's deal his AAV is $7.2M, which is probably a fairer number to look at when talking about comparing cap hits. If you consider Keith as $7.2M, Doughty at $7M, Karlsson and Pietrangelo at $6.5M each I agree that something in the $7M range seems reasonable.

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Contracts are always relative but relative or not, Phaneuf is massively overpaid and is a horrible comparator. After all, Crosby makes 8.7, so it's not all dollars.. Subban will get 8.5 or so cap hit but much more up front salary-wise (a la Weber) and sliding until the end of the K. Max term. Where do I sign?

    The trade would never happen because Tallon would be taking on an albatross and two attitude problems. The Leafs would never be so lucky to have this happen. If I'm running the Panthers, I'm not even sure I return the courtesy call. Yes, Kadri and Phaneuf can play hockey capably, but taking on these dollars (and Kadri's imminent dollars) just makes no sense for them at this point in their rebuild.

    If the Leafs are of the mind they can't build a contender with these two, why would the Panthers think so? Yes, sometimes one man's garbage is another's gold, but not here IMO. Ain't happenin'.
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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    Great points in this thread, I've been swayed, this would be a bad deal on Florida's end if they moved the pick.

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    Default Re: Howard Berger's interesting Leafs/Panthers trade rumor

    As a Panthers fan i don´t know, if i would like this deal. As most of you guys know i disagree at Pengwins statement that the Cats can get Eichel/McDavid so this changes things a bit. They will sign FA´s and move away from the bottom three IMO. The Posts saying that the Panthers are only planning to spending to the cap floor are flat our wrong, as Viola and Tallon have stated multiple times now.

    Phaneuf seems to have to become really underrated arround here so i wouldn´t mind adding him even at that salary, i also like the idea of shipping Jovos contract somewhere else. Phaneuf would become the 2nd best D we got without a doubt.

    The thing that would worry me the most is the value that Kadri has. We do not need a center, but could the guy turn into a winger? It might be possible since his weaknesses are clearly his defense and he would not need to care about that as much if he plays the wing.

    I think i could like this deal if Ehlers is still on board, not so much if the pick would end up being Nylander. But all this discussion is lacking IMO is how far the drop off between #1 and #8 is. And it is smaller than in other draft years.

    Sadly the one time we win the lottery the Nr.1 pick isn´t that big of a prize.
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